#1444 Anthony Pompliano & Phil Rosen | Why Is Bitcoin Crashing Right Now?!
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What's going on, guys? Today we've got a fascine conversation with phil rosen. He is the cofounder and editor in chief of opening bell daily. In this conversation, we talk about what's going on bit.

Why is the Price crashing? Should you be worried we then get into microstrip gy? What's going on that business are the risks? And why can no one identify how I could go wrong? And then we talk about microstrip gy for x and this brand new theme that i'm seeing emerging in public markets, but also a couple of companies in the private market.

The more people who thought to understand the stuff, and the more competition there is in the free market of ideas online. Better that we will get, there is episode. And then go do some work, go do some research and come back and let us know what are the answers to the questions that we post in this episode.

I'd love to learn from all of you. Here is my latest conversation with fill rose IT Anthony y pumping o runs pump in vestments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are surely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of pop investments.

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So of course, everyone is freaking out because bitcoin has crashed to ninety two k even though were a week ago, that was the all time high. There has been some reports of profit taking and some people say because everyone thinks we're getting to one hundred k, that means we're just not onna get there.

What's you read on this? Everyone, relax. Prices are crashing to Prices that haven't been seen since literally last week.

As you just said, on november first, the Price of bitcoin was about sixty nine thousand dollars and went from six nine thousand to ninety nine thousand dollars in my twenty one days, and now were back down to ninety two thousand. And everyone is freaking me out. One of my favorite things about bitcoin, if you can pick a Price way out in the future.

And at some point, although today IT looks like, will we ever get there, somebody will be freaking out because the Prices is crashing to two hundred thousand dollars. But that will be a headline some point in the future. And so I just think that a motion is so short term, and people just look at what hour by hour, day by day, they don't zoom out.

Look, the Price of bitcoin was forty thousand dollars starting this year, when the E. T. S. Got to proved in general was forty thousand hours.

Where was that one hundred thousand? This is an incredible run for bitcoin in twenty and twenty four. But if you go on twitter right now, you didn't think that you would think the world is ending.

Bitcoin is over. People are done. Chill out. We've seen this story before in thanksgiving week of twenty twenty, bitcoin threw down about fifteen percent, consolidated for about weekend hours, maybe two weeks.

And then we went up and I was glorious. We broke through the twenty thousand new all time high level. And we are adding a thousand dollars a day.

I remember on december twenty fifth, we hit twenty five thousand and december twenty six and twenty six thousand and december twenty thousand, twenty thousand, and on december thirty, we hit thirty thousand dollars. And he was awesome. But everyone forgot a month.

They thought the world was ending. And so this constant isolation between good times and bad times and good times and bad times prove that the hardest thing to do in investing is just sit on your hands and weight. And I think people who do that right now gond be just fine.

That's definitely true. Um one thing that is making people nervous, a lot of people are gaining bitcoin exposure for the first time ever, right when it's at a hundred k and you also have even more people that still don't have the quin exposure and they're still worried about the etf. So or maybe a proxy exposure like microstrip gy, but you've been buying bitcoin for six, seven years at this point. What was that um what gave you the early conviction because I was way before you know most people when people are buying bit.

when they don't have conviction, they're trying to get rich. Just call what IT is. All these people who want out, like morally, you look down on everyone else.

Ninety nine percent of people who buy bacon for the first time are buying IT because they think they are going get rich. And that is the beauty of bitcoin, is that is a decentralized organization. The deal zed network, there is no marketing team.

Price is the marketing campaign. When Price goes up, people talk about IT. I get a lot more asks to go on C, N, B, C, bloomberg, fox business and other T, V shows during bow markets and bear markets.

I have people who talk to me, barbers and taxi drivers and all the queen intial stuff during bow markets, not pair markets. Word of mouth spreads. You see IT all over the news. More people come in, but they're not showing up because they think that they're buying a sovereign set that's decentralized. I can be sensor or seas, and they are going to hold this and giving to their grandchildren they buy because at ninety thousand dollars that this is gone to one hundred thousand, or the thing is one to one hundred and ten thousand gonna get rich. And so these people come in for the money.

But the beauty bitcoin is, as you start to hold IT, you then insert to learn about IT, you start to get in doctorate into the whole community, and you start to hear from people, oh, what is this idea of the centralization? Why is the problem of the government printing money? I didn't rose, put that much money, and they start to understand much more.

And IT goes from i'm here to get rich to, you can never convince me to sell this. And that is ultimately where you build conviction. But conviction comes from education, comes from time invested, comes from testing yourself.

If you think of all the things that you are convicted in, right? IT comes from the fact that you have tested or you have tried, whether this or not. And so if you go and to talk to someone who is really deep conviction in religion, it's because during dark times they turned to religion.

Rather, they tested themselves. If you go when you look at somebody, uh, maybe on a team like a sports team, and they have really deep conviction, and I grew in that team well, it's because that teens went to up and downs, build bonds together. The military, they went through training together.

That was really hard. They tested themselves in combat, right? But conviction comes from not just the good times, comes from the bad times.

And so although a ten percent drawdown is not a bad time, uh, that helps to build conviction for somebody. And so these are small ones. But imagine all the people who bought big in for the first time in.

And one, those fifty percent of bitcoin holders at one point came in during most two years. They just watched bitcoin drop from sixty nine thousand to seventeen and go over way back up to almost one hundred. You think they have conviction they are way stronger hands today than they were when they first buy bitcoin.

And so it's this idea that you basically are building bitcoin ers. And when you think of all these Price fluctuations as you are building the strong hand, you're building these people who have long term thinking you're building like Quentin big corner, they obviously say, well, it's healthy. We need this.

And if you go back and you look um in both the twenty seventeen ball market, in the twenty twenty one both market, even though Prices went up hundreds of percent, we saw multiple sometimes four to six thirty plus percent during that ball market into its a ball class set. IT doesn't go up in a straight line into you're gona get these charges. You're going to get some drought down, some consolidation and surge again, just chill. Everything can be OK. And what we're watching is we're watching people build this conviction and the people who are selling bitcoin today, I think we'll end .

up grading at ten years. Now that's a solid bet. And that tracks with your history. When when you first started buying, were you in the camp as well? That was like, i'm buying this to get rich.

Everyone is in that camp. I do not know a single person who has bought bitcoin. And initially, that was not the thing. They're interested in its human nature.

And if you say that's not why you're buying IT, you're lying because an economic asset that has a Price attached to IT where monkeys we can help ourselves if we buy IT at one Price we want to have a go up to, is worth more in the future. IT is only after you start your own bitcoin can you truly start to understand IT. And so if you can understand IT well until you own IT, do you have that? Why are you buying IT? Because people wanted get rich.

And if you go back literally on the bitcoin talk forms in the early days, people are talking about one day. Here's what could happen one day. Here is all about, it's this today, but it's going be that tomorrow it's going be worth more.

And so I don't think that that a bad thing. A lot of people who want, again, kind of morally, you claim a high ground. I just think of human nature, why does anyone buy any financial asset? Because they want to make money on IT. IT sounds .

actually very similar to stocks because people points to stocks and say this is a real business, there is cash flow, there is revenue. But most investors, even the most sophisticated ones, i'd say, buy IT because they just think it's going to go up.

of course. And I think that what the Younger generation is showing is that um as more and more people ask the question how high can I go? Less people asked the question of how long can I go because the market has been manipulated to a point now where a stocks cannot fall for prolonged periods of time.

I may think about IT. We had a massive crash in twenty twenty two. Must be really remember anymore. We are back all time is whatever.

And so IT is a weird dynamic where people will always point, and they will say, look at the worst case, look at whatever we are in a century long board market, a century longer l market. There will be corrections along the way. There will be recessions.

But name one recession, name one depression that derail the united states of amErica over the last century, you can't they are all little blips on a chart because we're going up into the right and it's because the dollar a is going down into the right. And so all of this stuff doesn't matter. And I think that is the thing that people really lose up, is if you buy a stock, a single name stock, can I go down? absolutely.

Do come physical bankrupt? absolutely. But if you invest the stock market IT would be nearly impossible for the stock market not to go up over a fifteen or twenty year period. Big coin, four years or longer, you hold throughout history your own profit.

And so the idea really comes down to, are you buying the asset because you're trying to predict what the Prices is gonna in a week or a month? Or are you buying the asset because you're going hold a for the long run. And I think that there's a lot of people who bought bitcoin with a short time frame. And then when IT, when they drew down data, said, screw, I was going to hold IT and they got converted to long term holders.

So all of that said, and I think of course, bitcoin long term, I think structurally, it's still a very strong in the ball case is so intact that there's nothing even say otherwise. But this draw down to ninety two from ninety nine. What do you think like short term is pulling IT back?

I dreamed of days like this. Bitcoin dropping in ninety two thousand is music to my years, right? In the most simplistic way, the Price is dropping because more people are selling than buying, obviously, right? Why are people selling through a lot of long term holders that are selling right now? This is healthy enable market.

We see this quite often. If you go back and you look at all of the bitcoin that has been sold since the F T X collapse in november of twenty twenty two checked me, which is one of the the best bitcoin on chain OS in my mind. He pointed out the twenty one percent of of that selling has happened in the month of november of twenty twenty four, and a lot of selling going on.

There's this massive cell wall between like ninety thousand and one hundred thousand, great. But ninety percent of that selling is being eaten up by U. S. etf. Then you have microstrip gy, you have all these people were in the market buying away.

I actually think this drawdown is muted compared to what I Normally would have been without the etf, without microstrip gy buying a billions and billions of big coin, a billions of dollars of bakin. And so drew down nine percent. I told you in thanksgiving week of twenty twenty IT, drew down fifteen percent.

So without microcode in etf, maybe we would actually see a bigger drawed up. And so what that suggest is that the floor is actually much more structurally intact. And that, to me would suggest the upside is even more interesting, right?

Because you you've got such buying power that even in the drawdowns, they are muted, which would mean that when we're going the other direction, you have so much more momentum and so much more interest that, that ends up working in your favor. And so um the people selling right now, I think there's just a lot of profit taking, which is fine. Because guess what if you think because gone one hundred k maybe you should set your cell order for ninety eight five you want to sell before gets to a hundred when everyone else .

is going to try to set there is at ninety nine or ninety nine five yeah and I i've talk to investors who have those .

orders queued .

up for like ninety eight and ninety nine domes yeah um you you wrote something in your newsletter about how bitcoin tracks um m two supply。 Can you explain that a bit more?

M two global money supply is you liquidity. And bitcoin, more so than any asset in the world, is sensitive to liquidity. When liquidity expands, bitcoin goes up. When liquidity contracts, bitcoin goes down. And h joe consorted recently pointed out that about a seventy day lag or so.

So if m two starts exam today, day that spent true since about september twenty twenty three, if you going to look at sam cohen and lyn odin did a study um and some point IT out that biton is the most sensitive asset to global liquidity. And so as you see that m to increase this great you know thing for bitcoin, now what uh joe points out is that actually over the last you know thirty forty five days, m2， global supplies been decreasing. And so he says, look, i'm not predicting a market crash, but if we do get twenty or twenty five percent correction, then that would suggest that bitcoin is still just following global money supply.

But twenty or twenty five percent drawdown would not be uncommon. Enable market. So the resounding messages we are in a bit compute market, the trend is up into the right. There is nothing that I am seeing that is suggesting the bull market is over, even though people are freaking out, even though people feel like all my god, I can hit one hundred k that's fine. We are in a bit coin ball market and things will continue.

So just to touch on the m two supply. Does the equity market also track like with a some type of lag?

I I don't know the exact number, but uh, yeah of course, if you have liquidity, right, let me look twenty, twenty and twenty, twenty one. We increased liquidity in the market all as surprises went up. The fed came out.

They said we're going to drain liquidity from the market. Asset Prices went down. So there is a broad kind of correlation between these things.

But I do think that there is A A very important um kind of understanding around bitcoin in particular is that U S. Stocks, sure they have some tied of global liquidity, but really U S. Stocks are most impacted by U. S.

Liquidity, right? It's all within the same economy. Bitcoin is a global asset. There are hundreds of millions of people that don't bitcoin outside of the united states.

And so global liquidity and bitcoin as a global asset or much more kind of closely inter twined. But I think global liquidity in U. S. stocks. And so the more that you see you know of that, this is a global phenomenon, IT forces you to pay attention to what is china doing, what are other central banks doing because they have just as much impact on bitcoin as maybe the fed does.

And so you've really got ta have this kind of macro you know overly um more so than maybe you would need in um yeah the U S. Stock market. You really get attention what the fed doing.

不过 the E C B does doesn't have a massive effect on the U。 S. Stock market because the fed will override the E C B. So intellectually is stimulating for a lot of people because now you're point of global game, you're not just .

playing a domestic one plus it's like a central banks won't be creating a reserve of U S. equities. Well uh correct.

But uh, I do think that they at times have thought about buying IT socks .

probably should um Better .

than bonds .

yeah um so I want to talk about microstrip gy 1。 It's been one of the best performing stocks of the year. It's done Better than in video.

And they are essentially buying billions doors a bitcoin by raising billion dollars and borrowing money and selling to own stock to buy bitcoin. And I think right now, the market likes what is seeing is obviously a rewarding microgravity stock. Can you talk about your view on the risk reward for a public company to go all in on one asset?

Well, the reward is very obvious. It's worked so far. Um what I would say is um when I look at what my good strategy is doing, IT makes a lot of sense from a math standpoint if I can sell essentially future equity at a higher Price of my stock trades at today, which is really what the convertible det is sometimes that are fifty five percent premium and I can buy bitcoin today with that money.

Well, that sounds like a pretty good deal is because what you're basically doing is you're saying, hey, i'm going to investing your company at ten dollars, but i'm not going to actually get the equity at ten dollars. How to get that fifteen plus percent dollars a share? Why would I not do that if you do that all day long, right? It's no different than warm buff IT.

Or anybody else saying having my socks overvalued, I show more shares, my socks valued by back my shares. This is just a unique way of doing that, and it's a different use of the proceeds, right? Saying that festival now the counter wait to that is there's a hell of a lot of people I see saying nothing can go wrong.

I'm not that camp. I couldn't sit here and tell you what can go wrong. But what I can tell you is that an alarm goes up in my head when I start seeing everyone saying nothing can go wrong.

And so that's the hard part of the analysis, is that a lot of really smart people that I talk with, they say, listen, I get why it's going up. I get why sailor's doing what he's doing. All of that makes sense to very rational, both in terms of why people are buying IT, why people are buying the bonds and what he's buying bitcoin.

So you can, like, check all those boxes. The irrational thing is the blind belief that there is no risk. And so a lot of really sun investors that i've been talking with her saying somewhere to mean the unknown is actually what scares me.

We've never seen this before. We don't know what all the risks are. And it's okay at times to say, I think that there's always risk to anything. I can't figure out with the risky today, but that doesn't mean sit IT out completely or put all your money in completely.

Maybe actually the way to coal risk mitigate an unknown is some people get a little bit exposure, but they will also the risk by not putting one hundred percent of their money, right? And so IT becomes a very interesting dynamic of, I think, the reason why micro strategy is getting so much attention in the media, the Price is going up so much naturally. The reason why micro strategy is getting so much conversation in private or behind closed doors is because this is the ultimate intellectual exercise who can identify the unknown risk.

And i've got a couple of friends who are certain theories and stuff like that. Frankly, a lot of the theories that i've heard, I actually think that there is placed, which makes me even more you know kind of um not much confusing but like interesting is that people say all there's a premium and when the premium collapses, people could lose money. Maybe it's a premium.

I actually take IT more so that people are assigning a valuation multiple to this critical t like baLance sheet revenue, which can really get counted as to revenue. But IT, is this a creative thing based on the way that they're fundraising, which you get very clever and so you ve got to get to tip your hat and say, i've never seen you want to figure this out before and so that that's interesting. But if you go and you ask someone, what are the risks and they tell you zero.

I always think to myself, I can be zero because I can tell you, really extreme risks is if the united states band baccarin, do you think my your strategy stock with crater? Probably, I don't think that's gonna happen, right? But I would be like a super extreme things.

So like, okay, at least we now have all common ground identify that there is a potential risk that we can identify, even if we think, you know, at that point, zero zero zero, zero zero, one percent, okay, what else? And this is the exercise that I think a lot of really smart investors are going through. But the part that is so fascinating is that, again, I talk to a lot in some of these run very large and micro hedge funds.

Some people inside the biton community or a nobody has been able to raise their hand and say, with a high degree of confidence, i've found the risk. And so you got to ask yourself, could there be such, you know, low risk that this really is a new thing that we're underestimate? Maybe, but I think that's where the market is.

Trying to figure this out is that is IT simply so easy where you just sell, you're stuck in a premium, you buy back coin, bitcoin goes up. You say your stuck at a premium, you buy bitcoin, bitcoin goes up, right? Like that's pretty interesting. If that is what uh could happen.

it's very compelling. I mean, IT IT begs the question why when everyone do this um and a lot of the conversations i've been having with portfolio managers and all the big banks, similar to what you're saying, they cannot appoint the risk. But I know almost no one is buying IT for their clients. And the people who I know that are buying microstrip gy are almost entirely retailed self directed investors. And this makes me wonder if they say sumer to bitcoin a grass roots sort momentum that's happening.

I think a lot of people, when they hear retells buying something and they are like sophisticated guys, aren't they think like old, like the dummies are buying IT. I look at at the opposite. I look at IT as the independent thinkers or buying IT.

And the dummies are not buying IT because there is no place where group think dominates more than on wall street. There is like A A blob machine where they all just copy each other, right? You got an idea.

Everyone else has the same idea. There is very little original thinking that happens inside of these organizations because also people don't realize there's a lot of top down Mandate. Like go to the extreme, uh, example, financial advisers in many cases are given a model portfolio and the book of their client assets are going in a portfolio that the financial advisor didn't create.

You got created at the home office and maybe there's some tinkering, you know the edges or whatever. But like the bulk of IT is a doctor, a lawyer, personal, local community is giving their money to a financial adviser who really is just like a client, you representative and kind of a sales person. They're smart, they understand finance, but they're in a system where the system is pushing down what they're supposed to be investing in.

No different than if you walk into a local chick flayers subway or whatever. Sure, each one may have, again, tinker R A little bit round the edges, but like the home office told him, here is the system and so you have to remember, is not the person's fall with the financial advisor that they are in a system. And guess how systems work? You play within the system where you get fired, right? So it's like they almost have their hands tied behind their back, whether the individuals, the coco retail investor, is there money, the outside the system, they're free to think, they're free to evaluate, they're free to research, they're free to allocate.

And so I do think that um that has switched, we see is all across society. You know I was laughing. I saw recently uh the x IOS cofounder whom shows a really nice guy a came out he was yelling at a press dinner saying that just because you have a twitter account and a checkmark, you are not a journalist.

And I wanted to respond and explain, uh, I know a lot of journalist. I'm married to a journalist. A I right every day. I know what goes into IT. It's not some super secret.

You think we ve got to go get a big degree for some of the best journals in the world, literally have a witter count of checkmark, and they'd doing the same work. And so IT goes back to no one has a monopoly on the title of the media. There are people on twitter who are fully shit and spreading conspiring theory and all this nonsense in whatever.

There's a lot of people in the traditional media who do the same thing and their full of shit. And so neither side is right or wrong. It's just now that the playing field has level a little bit because the tools are democratized.

And so everyone is competing in a free market for the best ideas, the best stories is the best, whatever. So if you take that, you said that the media now go to the investing world. Same thing.

You now are getting a little bit more of a fair playing ground and you have had some leveling there. And now it's a free market of ideas, information, execution, eeta. And so I think that this is happening across society is that the people who are the incumbent investors or media, whatever their whole careers, have been based on where in the ivory tower those people aren't.

We have some advantage, but now that the tools have been given to the people you get that level playing field, the people I respect the most, and also the people who I think are winning, or the people who come from the incoming you know, side of things and they recognized the shift and they're starting to reposition themselves. Think of who has the biggest audiences in the world in terms of media. Half of them give or take or people from outside the media.

Joe rogan, uh, call her daddy right? Uh outscore per um you've got somebody like a Patrick bet David, a Shawn ryan. We were in journalist but they're top ten podcast.

But guess who else is up there? Tucker carson, Megan Kelly, candis owings? right? So you have in the top ten podcast about half of the people were not journalists that became journalists, and you have about half of them that were journalists that they were adapting to this new world.

The same thing is happening in the investing side. If you go you take the best returns in a given year and a given asset class. Probably about half of them are people who, with traditional training, who come out of an incomplete type organization and they're adapting to the new world.

And then about half of them are new and they're handle having that stuff from common etic, completely organic or native to this world. That's fascinating to me. And I think that bitcoin really sits at the center .

of water of that that such a good analogy with media. I think um a few years ago, you had all the independent investors going to bitcoin and you had the people like golden sax saying we would never give this to our clients. And then a few years later, that shift is taking place.

Just like in media, how know if you have the the platform of a newspaper or a website that gets millions of hits a day and then someone says I could make that outside without the iver tower or the gate, keeping the people inside the ivery tower feel very threatened by that. So then they do everything they can to, you know try to devalue whatever IT is that's coming at them. Uh, it's crazy. It's it's pretty .

a IT also going back to this idea of um intellectual humility is an essential skill going forward. Big coin ders have had to learn this, I think the hard way because everyone shows up the bitcoin and like it's the classic i'm new a bit coin. I'm here to fix IT, and those people just get run over.

And some of them realized that in adapt and change and get back on track, some of them just get through to the side and get forgotten. But I do think that are the same is true in the media or investing in general is that people are realizing way. The second, I have to constantly keep learning.

I have to constantly keep adapting. I think a big if you said yourself five years ago, okay, I understand that can tell exact what gonna happen. And you never updated your critical model.

So your mental model or or natural financial model, another etf here, completely new game, microstrip gy, is here. Bitcoin miners are doing all kinds of things in the market like it's always evolving. And so you have to have the intellectual humility of like a student, not a teacher.

And I think that that is true, and media think that's true. And investing the thing i'll save about the connection between media and investment is prety interesting. Do the same job, find the truth.

The problem is that there are some people in the media, whether they are traditional media or new media, who they are not interested in the truth, they're interested in activism. M, and the end that usually fall into the wayside, right? Because people lose trust in them. Investing has a thing.

There are people who have what I call concrete brain, right? You want to have wet concrete because you can still mode, you can still move in a those are people who are able to find new assets like bitcoin, who are able to allocate things, who are able to be contrarian and who are able to find the new themes or the new companies to think about things that may be they see things that are overvalued that other people think aren't, or they see things that are undervalued that other people don't, right? They're constantly evolving.

But in the concrete brain investor sixty forty global portfolio, that that was my training, obviously. What do you mean, you Young, dumb kids with this digital internet money can't possibly be valuable and cost you money. And so in media, if you have a kind of flexible mind and a flexible approach, and if you have the intellect, humility, there's reward at the end of that journey.

If you are inflexible, then you actually get hit reputation's. Because people lose trust in investing the same thing. Those with the flexible mind get the reward.

Those with an inflexible mind lose money. And so IT is this fascinating dynamic of both the media and investors are trying to do the same thing, which is get the truth. One allocate capital, the other allocates attention. But ultimately it's the same exact you know workload.

I think it's what's unique about media is that the incentives are not so um it's not as black .

and way as you .

make money or you don't make money because in media, if you are a contrarian, you could lose your job, you could lose your friends. You could get exercised by all the other media companies. And it's a very different game than just i'm gonna get you know x amount of percent returns more than ah the other investors.

But I think that in investing that has always been true that you can lose friends, money, all the stuff the time. But ultimately, there's an objective, there's A A dollar right there, there's a Price. And if you end up being right, people will point back and say, you are right.

People watch the big short, losing, losing, losing, losing, bam, housing collapse. Make a bunch of money on a genius. I walk away right in media, to your point, is not as clear.

But there are a number of people who I think came out, let's say, during twenty, and they said, this is wrong, or I believe x and they were ostracized, they were attack. They were all stuff IT turns out they were right. The difference though is how many people are willing to go back and say you were right to the journalist very few verses. There's always the Price tag on from an investor standpoint. This person s millions dollars or billions dollars.

It's pretty hard argue with what's also the people that are willing to say, hey, journalist, you are right. That's not other journalists. Other journalists will be the last people to admit something like that um so before we gets you far off, I want to ask you about soul strategies and you wrote about this stock this week um where this uh company they're doing something similar to microstrip gy uh but instead of buying bitcoin, they're buying salona.

What one of the big seems that I think uh is not a player twenty twenty five and kind of years beyond that is what i'm calling microstrip gy for x. And so basically, what microstrip gy has identified is that you Normally have two different levers in your business. You have revenue.

You can drive more revenue that can improve your business or you can pull the level of expenses and you can cut expenses. And the best businesses drive more revenue and cut expenses the same time and makes them more efficient, more profitable or Better business. Microstrip gy introduced ed, the idea for non real estate companies to use their baLance sheet as third level.

So reason why I clarify non real city comes is because real business, business forever, you have a baLance. He has asset you can borrow against that you can liver IT. You can do all these different things with your baLance.

And people understand that in real state, drive revenue, cut cost if baLance, he is the third level for these other business, ses, especially software houses, no one's really thought of the baLance sheet as that third level you can pull microstrip. Gy did IT. So naturally what happens? Somebody says, I microloan thing seems to work.

So metal planet in japan is when we do in japan, we could arb the end. We've got all kinds advantages. Let's do that. And then some more scientific says, well, what? We just do exactly what he's and they start to do IT, and we start to get people doing IT.

Then you see somebody like a hot eight or a marathon or riot come out and say, why don't we leave some big one bunchy? Why don't we not sell our bitcoin that we're mining? Why don't we borrow money or raise capital to buy more bitcoin so they start to do IT?

Then you have somebody like a defied technologies that says, well, if we can put one asset like bitcoin on our baLance sheet, why don't we put a lot of these assets on our baLance sheet and they go and they put five, six, seven different assets on their and they say, hey, we're going to be more than index for the whole industry and then you have a company like so strait that comes along and so well, why don't we do salona microsoft? Gy for salona was put that on our baLance sheet and then let's go and let's buy validators, which are basically like the equipment of bit in mining. But for sala and let's drive cash flow to get more snow on our ability.

And so the reason i'm so interested in this is because I think this is a much broader theme. I am a shareholder or an adviser to defy technologies, how a and and saw strategies because I think that they are pioneering a brand new space in public markets that is going to marry all the business models. Device technologies has e tps.

I spent around for a long time. hoddy. Has energy infrastructure spent around for a long time, saw strategies, has the equivalent of the mining business right in these validators. That is a business that people understand from the drying cash flows as such as no different like a gold miner. But those three companies are also pioneering using their baLance sheet as a third lever, some more.

And so today, maybe you know those three are the three ipad the most potential? Do some helping them, but maybe there's gona end up being a hundred or five hundred of these companies. I when I H was talking about this yesterday, got a bunch of inbound of people with different variations around the world.

interesting. And so my guesses that what we are watching is microstrip. Gy is the pioneer on baLance sheet.

As a third lever, these other companies are starting to try to take that idea and customize IT to whatever their business, their focuses. But we are at the dawn of microstrip gy for ex. And you can see a lot of people do this because people are realizing IT works.

IT goes back to earlier conversation though, what are the risks? And so the obvious risk that no one talks about is just the Prices go down. And so if you do microscope for acts and you pick some check coin or some mean coin that goes zero, it's not gonna work, right? But that's no different than if you say how to start e commerce company.

Everyone's always done e commerce and then you sell something that nobody wants. Your company's not going work, right? So you can't just implement the strategy and pick any asset.

You have to pick things that will last. And so I just think that we are watching the creation of this. Um i'm fascinated by IT.

I think a lot of value will get created. Here are obviously microstrip gy performed very, very well. Minors have done very well uh， over this year.

And so I do think that um professional investors could take a page out of the retail playbook and say, if I see IT work one place, let me go find the other iterations of IT and have to evaluate each one individually. Maybe they will work, maybe they will maybe they be right. May be or business or bad, but there's a theme now and it's no different than investors showing up and saying i'm a marketplace investor.

I look for marketplaces and I really understand them to two side of marketplace. I understand you've tt a get liquidity on one side. Has ever certain clearing Price in a mechanism, if you will, talk to, like a really good marketplace investor.

I fall a sleep as they talk about the nuance detail, but I also know I could never compete with them in marketplace investing. They are experts. They could tell you details of paid advertising spend and c calculations and you know liquidity management, all these things to a degree that I literally might not even understand.

But you foot over and you say, okay, let's go talk about this new sector that's being built. I want to be an expert on that. I want to understand that.

Not there yet, but i'm trying really hard. I'm starting understand IT Better. And so to me, that is where the saw strategies to fight technologies is hot. So the world at sea a is that baLanced as a third lever to poll, Michael, strategy was first, they're doing at the biggest.

They're kind of the category creator, but I think that this is one of those rare strategies that the fast followers gonna create a lot about you too. Usually a category creator is the king and that's IT. And it's very hard maybe you get a uber lift, you know, to get A A number two, but it's not that there's fifteen or twenty here because of the new ones of the strategy.

Any business in the world can do this. Even a small business in the private market can do in, and it's not necessarily competitive with each other. And so I think that that allows for an investment stamp point a lot of runway to go and find these as they pop up around the world um and say, hey, look at I I want to make sure that you know i'm .

at the poor from this fast ating and it's a it's great how tap and you are to those the smaller kind of van guards um on that note, thank you for having me they should do this.