Terry Gilliam embraces chaos and challenges as part of the filmmaking process. He describes himself as a fatalist, always expecting things to go wrong, which helps him remain calm when they do. He thrives on adrenaline, which drives him to act decisively and find creative solutions to obstacles, such as finding ways around 'brick walls' that block his path.
Gilliam compares filmmaking to Don Quixote's battles because both involve an 'impossible dream' and a constant struggle against entropy. Filmmaking, like Don Quixote's quest, is filled with challenges such as studio interference, financial constraints, and unpredictable events like natural disasters, yet it requires unwavering faith in the final product.
'The Man Who Killed Don Quixote' is significant in Gilliam's career as it represents a 30-year struggle to bring the project to life. The film, starring Adam Driver and Jonathan Pryce, is layered like a Russian matryoshka doll, exploring themes of art, guilt, and the folly of belief. It reflects Gilliam's persistence and his ability to turn personal and professional setbacks into creative triumphs.
Gilliam sees guilt as a central theme in his films, particularly in 'The Man Who Killed Don Quixote' and 'The Fisher King.' He explores how art and creativity can unintentionally harm lives, leading to a sense of responsibility and moral reckoning. This theme ties back to his Christian upbringing, which emphasizes punishment, suffering, and atonement.
Gilliam believes that chaos and order are intertwined and essential to life. He identifies with both 'chaos Muppets' and 'order Muppets,' seeing himself as someone who thrives on the tension between the two. He likens this dynamic to the Hindu god Kali, who is both creator and destroyer, emphasizing that this conflict is what makes life interesting and meaningful.
Gilliam describes his creative process between projects as a cycle of intense focus followed by a period of 'postnatal depression' or creative slumps. He acknowledges the need to hit bottom before finding inspiration again. During these times, he engages in manual labor, such as building stone walls, to stay grounded and productive while waiting for the next idea to take hold.
Gilliam worries that modern myths, such as superhero films, remove the pain and consequences from their narratives, creating a disconnect from reality. He contrasts this with older myths, like those of Don Quixote, which emphasize the complexities and struggles of heroism. He believes that recognizing these stories as myths, rather than reality, is crucial to understanding their impact.
Gilliam sees his role as a director as that of a ringleader who orchestrates the collaborative efforts of a team. While he takes credit or blame for the final product, he emphasizes that filmmaking is a collective endeavor. He values working with talented individuals and believes that the best films emerge from shared creativity and problem-solving.
Gilliam views heroism as a noble and old-fashioned concept that he explores in his films. Characters like Don Quixote and Harry Tuttle in 'Brazil' embody a purity of vision and a commitment to ideals, even if they are flawed or misunderstood. He believes that heroism, when done right, is about using power intelligently and for good, rather than dominating others.
Gilliam recognizes that time is perceived differently depending on the viewer's engagement with a film. When a film resonates with an audience, time seems to fly, whereas a boring film feels interminably long. He uses pacing and editing to manipulate the audience's experience of time, aiming to create moments where viewers are fully absorbed and lose their sense of the clock.
[From February through March 22, 2020 (his last day hosting Think Again) Jason will be revisiting favorite past episodes. Jason's new show, starting May 12th, is Clever Creature with Jason Gots).]
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Faith in anything is its own special form of madness.
It’s a challenge to entropy, and entropy takes no challenge lightly. If there’s any better metaphor for this struggle than trying to make a big budget movie with even a shred of integrity, I haven’t found it.
On the one hand, you’ve got this impossible dream. This faith in the beautiful thing that’s supposed to emerge at at the end of the process. On the other hand, the process is a hellish sausage-making machine of studio bosses, financing, and acts of god like four days of flash flooding in the middle of your big shoot. You might as well be Don Quixote, doing battle with a windmill.
What kind of masochist would put themselves through that?
My guest today, Terry Gilliam), is that very masochist. And we should be grateful, because his stomach for the fight has given us movies like THE FISHER KING, BRAZIL, 12 MONKEYS and MONTY PYTHON’s THE LIFE OF BRIAN. And now, almost 30 years after his first, biblically disastrous attempt to make it, THE MAN WHO KILLED DON QUIXOTE). Starring Adam Driver and Jonathan Pryce, the movie is as funny, thrilling, and unpretentiously deep as the best of Gilliam’s work. It’s also kind of like one of those Russian matryoshka dolls: a film inside a film inside a film, all of them metaphors for the holy folly of believing in anything at all.
*The Man Who Killed Don Quixote is out April 19th in select theaters and on demand video. *
**Surprise conversation starters in this episode: **
Michelle Thaller on whether time is real or an illusion)
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