cover of episode Efficient scaleups in 2024 vs 2021: Sourcegraph (with CEO & Co-founder Quinn Slack)

Efficient scaleups in 2024 vs 2021: Sourcegraph (with CEO & Co-founder Quinn Slack)

2024/10/9
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Quinn Slack: 2021年的许多管理决策现在看来都令人后悔,因为当时开发者非常抢手,人们的期望值过高且不切实际。管理层花费大量时间处理快速增长带来的问题,而没有充分利用机遇。公司推出了一些不必要的新功能和产品。对早期职业的员工不够坦诚,没有告知他们实现目标需要付出更多努力。 Sourcegraph 的目标始终如一,即让每个人都能进行编码,并在此基础上不断发展产品。在疫情期间,Sourcegraph 实现了快速增长,这与其多年的积累和坚持密不可分。 作为CEO,保持与代码和产品的密切联系至关重要。对 AI 在软件开发中的应用持乐观态度,认为其未来将消除开发者的重复性工作。Sourcegraph 采用渐进式自动化方法,优先处理简单的任务,逐步提高自动化程度。更新产品变更日志很重要,因为它能帮助用户了解新版本的功能变化,并体现了团队的纪律性和工作效率。 AI 要达到 100% 的软件开发能力,需要改进自动化方法和数据获取方式。即使是顶尖的软件工程团队,也很难将代码更改与收入直接关联起来。AI 工具可能会促使公司更积极地将代码更改与业务指标关联起来。AI 将改变开发工具的格局,并提高快速构建的投资回报率。 开发者需要理解 AI 工具的工作原理,才能有效地使用它们。AI 工具的工作方式类似于向 ChatGPT 提问,并提供相关的文件上下文。调试器在改进开发工具和工作流程方面发挥着重要作用。方便易用的开发工具能显著提高使用率。 新毕业的软件工程师比资深工程师更擅长使用 AI 工具,这使得他们在就业市场上具有优势。软件工程领域一直在不断变化,AI 工具的出现不会导致大规模失业。AI 工具的出现可能会提高软件工程师的价值,并使其承担更多职责。 AI 目前更擅长编写新代码,而不是处理现有代码库。AI 工具目前还无法理解复杂的现有代码库。 Sourcegraph 取消了“招聘会”制度,转为更稳定的团队模式。Sourcegraph 之前的“招聘会”制度旨在快速推进新项目,但最终被证明不可持续。Sourcegraph 的“招聘会”制度持续了大约六个月,之后恢复了传统的团队模式。Sourcegraph 的“招聘会”制度是为了快速调整公司优先级,并确保员工专注于最重要的项目。Sourcegraph 的经验表明,清晰地沟通公司优先级非常重要。 Sourcegraph 长期以来一直坚持薪资透明化,认为这是正确的做法。薪资透明化对求职者来说是件好事,但求职者需要更好地理解股权激励的价值。Sourcegraph 从位置独立薪酬模式转变为基于区域的薪酬模式。位置独立薪酬模式存在一些弊端,例如难以在高成本地区招聘人才,并会产生一些奇怪的激励机制。GitLab 等公司一直采用基于区域的薪酬模式。 规模超过 200 人的公司不太可能继续采用位置独立薪酬模式。软件工程师应该从股东和 CEO 的角度思考问题。 在创业初期,CEO 应该花费大部分时间进行编码。随着公司规模的扩大,CEO 的工作重点发生了变化,更侧重于产品战略和客户关系。CEO 的重要职责是保持公司发展方向的一致性。在创业初期,CEO 应该直接参与产品的开发和客户沟通。 CEO 的工作重点应该是产品和客户,而不是会议和战略规划。 Gergely Orosz: 播客介绍:涵盖大型科技公司和初创公司内部的软件工程。本期访谈内容:Sourcegraph 的运营模式在2024年和2021年的变化,AI 和大型语言模型的实际应用案例,以及 Sourcegraph 从位置独立薪酬到基于区域薪酬的转变等。越来越多的美国公司开始公开薪资信息,这是一种积极的趋势。规模超过 200 人的公司不太可能继续采用位置独立薪酬模式。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why did Sourcegraph shift from location-independent pay to zone-based pay?

Sourcegraph moved to zone-based pay to ensure fair compensation and efficient hiring. Location-independent pay created incentives for employees to move to low-cost regions, which wasn't sustainable for the company. Zone-based pay allows Sourcegraph to remain competitive while aligning compensation with local markets.

How has Sourcegraph's approach to AI and automation evolved since 2021?

Sourcegraph has adopted a gradual approach to AI, focusing on automating small, repetitive tasks like updating changelogs before moving to more complex tasks. The company believes in a bottom-up approach to automation, starting with simple tasks and gradually increasing complexity, rather than aiming for full automation immediately.

What are the current limitations of AI in software development according to Quinn Slack?

AI struggles with understanding complex existing codebases and making large changes without human oversight. It also lacks the ability to perform staged rollouts, notify on-call personnel, or work effectively with feature flags, which are critical for safe and effective software changes.

Why does Quinn Slack continue to code daily despite being CEO?

Quinn Slack believes that coding daily helps him stay close to the product and make better decisions as a CEO. It also allows him to stay fluent with new technologies and understand the intricacies of the product, which is crucial for leading a company that builds developer tools.

What was the purpose of Sourcegraph's Job Fairs, and why did they stop?

Job Fairs were introduced to quickly shift priorities and resources to the most important projects, especially during a major pivot like the development of Cody. However, they were discontinued because they didn't foster long-term team ownership or camaraderie, which are essential for sustained productivity and innovation.

How has Quinn Slack's leadership style evolved since becoming CEO?

Quinn Slack has become more focused on aligning the company around a single direction, even if it means overruling experts in certain areas. He has also learned to prioritize customer and product interactions, which he believes are crucial for making informed decisions and maintaining a strong product-market fit.

What are the key takeaways for software engineers regarding AI tools in the industry?

Junior engineers are more fluent with AI tools, giving them an advantage. However, the industry is still in the early stages of AI adoption, and engineers should focus on understanding how these tools can eliminate toil rather than replace their roles. The value of engineers who can effectively use AI tools will likely increase.

Why is transparency in compensation important for Sourcegraph?

Transparency in compensation helps Sourcegraph attract and retain talent by ensuring fairness and clarity. While equity compensation is also important, many engineers struggle to understand its value. Transparent cash compensation provides a clearer baseline for potential employees.

What is Quinn Slack's favorite book and why?

Quinn Slack's favorite book is the LBJ biographies by Robert Caro. He appreciates the in-depth look at Lyndon Baines Johnson's life and decision-making, which he finds valuable for understanding leadership and the importance of making a few good decisions annually.

What advice does Quinn Slack have for software engineers trying new AI tools?

Quinn advises engineers to hold AI tools to a high standard and provide feedback to improve them. He encourages engineers to see through the hype and focus on whether these tools are genuinely useful for their work, pushing for continuous improvement.

Chapters
This chapter traces Sourcegraph's journey from its inception in 2013 to its current state in 2024, highlighting its evolution as a code search and intelligence platform and its growth in terms of team size and funding. It also touches upon the company's early challenges in gaining traction and securing major clients.
  • Sourcegraph founded in 2013
  • Initial focus on code search
  • Uber as an early customer
  • Significant growth in revenue during the pandemic

Shownotes Transcript

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On today’s episode of The Pragmatic Engineer, I’m joined by Quinn Slack, CEO and co-founder of Sourcegraph, a leading code search and intelligence platform. Quinn holds a degree in Computer Science from Stanford and is deeply passionate about coding: to the point that he still codes every day! He also serves on the board of Hack Club, a national nonprofit dedicated to bringing coding clubs to high schools nationwide. In this insightful conversation, we discuss:            

• How Sourcegraph's operations have evolved since 2021

• Why more software engineers should focus on delivering business value

• Why Quinn continues to code every day, even as a CEO

• Practical AI and LLM use cases and a phased approach to their adoption

• The story behind Job Fairs at Sourcegraph and why it’s no longer in use

• Quinn’s leadership style and his focus on customers and product excellence

• The shift from location-independent pay to zone-based pay at Sourcegraph

• And much more!

Where to find Quinn Slack:

• X: https://x.com/sqs)

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/quinnslack/)

• Website: https://slack.org/)

Where to find Gergely:

• Newsletter: https://www.pragmaticengineer.com/)

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/mrgergelyorosz)

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gergelyorosz/)

• X: https://x.com/GergelyOrosz)

In this episode, we cover:

(01:35) How Sourcegraph started and how it has evolved over the past 11 years

(04:14) How scale-ups have changed 

(08:27) Learnings from 2021 and how Sourcegraph’s operations have streamlined

(15:22) Why Quinn is for gradual increases in automation and other thoughts on AI

(18:10) The importance of changelogs

(19:14) Keeping AI accountable and possible future use cases 

(22:29) Current limitations of AI

(25:08) Why early adopters of AI coding tools have an advantage 

(27:38) Why AI is not yet capable of understanding existing codebases 

(31:53) Changes at Sourcegraph since the deep dive on The Pragmatic Engineer blog

(40:14) The importance of transparency and understanding the different forms of compensation

(40:22) Why Sourcegraph shifted to zone-based pay

(47:15) The journey from engineer to CEO

(53:28) A comparison of a typical week 11 years ago vs. now

(59:20) Rapid fire round

The Pragmatic Engineer deepdives relevant for this episode:

• Inside Sourcegraph’s engineering culture: Part 1 https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/p/inside-sourcegraphs-engineering-culture)• Inside Sourcegraph’s engineering culture: Part 2 https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/p/inside-sourcegraphs-engineering-culture-part-2)

References and Transcript:

See the transcript and other references from the episode at https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/podcast)

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