cover of episode Resetting Expectations on Southeast Asia with Arnaud Bonzom

Resetting Expectations on Southeast Asia with Arnaud Bonzom

2024/10/23
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Analyse Asia with Bernard Leong

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Arnaud Bonzom: 东南亚的资金流入只是暂时的潮汐,当潮水退去,资金将首先撤离东南亚,因为该地区无法提供最佳回报。优秀的公司总能筹集到资金,但那些稍逊一筹的公司将面临巨大的挑战,一些公司将不得不提高资本效率。对东南亚的乐观预期可能过于乐观,需要更现实的评估。东南亚经济增长迅速,但需考虑基数效应,以及与其他地区(如欧洲)的比较。东南亚经济体量与发达国家相比仍然较小,人均可支配收入也相对较低,这表明该地区仍处于早期发展阶段。许多东南亚创业者将新加坡作为起点,然后扩张到其他国家,但这可能目标过小,缺乏雄心。许多印度的B2B创业者会先瞄准美国市场,然后再考虑印度市场,东南亚创业者也应该考虑这种策略。一些东南亚创业者将美国作为主要市场,并成功地从美国投资者那里获得了融资,这表明东南亚创业者可以将目光投向更大的市场。2021年和2022年的融资模式由于零利率时代而异常,2023年和2024年的融资模式应该与疫情前的年份进行比较,以获得更准确的评估。风投公司通常在10年内部署资金,但在东南亚等新兴市场,这一过程需要更长的时间,这需要考虑资金的部署周期和退出策略。疫情前的东南亚公司估值可能过高,这使得风投公司难以盈利。东南亚市场有时被高估,一些交易的估值与欧洲的重复创业者相似,这反映了市场的不成熟。一些东南亚的基金规模过大,这使得他们需要更大的退出规模才能获得足够的回报。一些基金规模过大,导致他们难以找到足够的优质公司进行投资,并最终导致他们需要减少基金规模。创业者和风投公司都应该保持乐观,但同时也要保持纪律性,避免过度融资和高估值投资。由于大型风投公司减少了对东南亚的投资,导致B轮到E轮的融资出现缺口。东南亚资金的流入只是暂时的,当资金撤离时,东南亚将首当其冲。优秀的公司总能筹集到资金,但那些稍逊一筹的公司将面临巨大的挑战。许多东南亚公司在过去一年中实现了盈利,这为他们提供了更长的发展时间。东南亚存在大量“僵尸公司”,它们未能及时关闭,造成了资源错配。东南亚创业公司和风投公司缺乏纪律性,尤其是在融资和选择投资者方面。DPI(已缴资本分配)是衡量风投基金成功与否的重要指标,它代表了基金向投资者返还的资金。DPI 的时间安排也很重要,尽早返还资金对风投公司来说更有利。由于在流动性事件中(如二级市场)的折扣,大多数东南亚基金难以实现3倍的回报。在投资中,退出时间至关重要,过早退出可能会错失潜在的巨大收益,而过晚退出则可能导致损失。风投公司需要在返还投资者资金和保持基金业绩之间取得平衡。东南亚风投公司目前的DPI问题可能会影响他们未来的融资能力。规模较小的基金更有可能提供良好的DPI,并促使创业者专注于建设必需品而非可有可无的产品。创业者应该关注活跃的风投公司,并了解他们的投资记录。创业者应该专注于建设伟大的公司,最佳的出售时机通常是在你不想出售的时候。政府应该采取措施消除东南亚创业生态系统的瓶颈,例如提供长期签证、培训风投公司、建立基金支持新兴基金经理等。未来五年,东南亚创业生态系统应该出现更多具有全球影响力的成功案例,而不是仅仅局限于东南亚地区。东南亚的创业者和投资者应该更加现实,避免盲目乐观。 Bernard Leong

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why is Southeast Asia not expected to offer the best returns for investors in the near future?

Southeast Asia is not expected to offer the best returns because it is not the most attractive market for high returns compared to other regions. When global investment tides recede, Southeast Asia is often the first place money leaves due to its relatively lower return potential. This trend is unlikely to reverse soon, and investors are expected to be less aggressive in the region.

What challenges do startups in Southeast Asia face in the current funding climate?

Startups in Southeast Asia face challenges in raising capital, especially those that are not top-tier companies. While great companies will always find funding, those just below the top tier will struggle. Many will need to become more capital-efficient and focus on achieving profitability quickly to survive in the current funding environment.

How does the size of a fund impact its ability to generate returns in Southeast Asia?

The size of a fund significantly impacts its ability to generate returns. Larger funds require larger exits to return capital to investors, which is challenging in Southeast Asia due to the smaller market size and lower exit valuations. Funds that are too large may struggle to find enough high-quality investments to generate the necessary returns, leading to reduced fund sizes and more disciplined investment strategies.

What is the significance of DPI (Distributions to Paid-In Capital) in measuring VC fund success?

DPI measures the money returned to Limited Partners (LPs) relative to the capital they invested. It is a critical metric for evaluating VC fund success because it shows the actual cash returns generated from investments. In Southeast Asia, achieving a high DPI is challenging due to lower exit valuations and longer investment horizons, making it difficult for funds to return 3x the invested capital, which is the benchmark for success.

What advice does Arnaud Bonzom give to founders navigating the 2023-2024 funding climate?

Arnaud Bonzom advises founders to focus on building great companies and achieving profitability. He emphasizes the importance of being capital-efficient and realistic about the size of the Southeast Asian market. Founders should also consider expanding to larger markets like the U.S. if their business model allows, as Southeast Asia alone may not provide sufficient scale for significant growth.

What does Arnaud Bonzom identify as the key bottleneck in Southeast Asia's startup ecosystem?

Arnaud Bonzom identifies the lack of discipline in fundraising and investment as a key bottleneck. Founders and investors often raise too much capital or invest at inflated valuations, which can lead to unsustainable business models. He also highlights the need for more government support, such as long-term visas for entrepreneurs and training for emerging fund managers, to enhance the ecosystem.

Chapters
This chapter explores the over-optimism surrounding Southeast Asia's startup ecosystem. It discusses the influx of capital during periods of low interest rates and the subsequent correction as investors seek better returns elsewhere. The chapter also highlights the importance of considering the region's early stage of development and its limitations compared to larger, more unified markets.
  • Over-optimism in Southeast Asia's VC landscape.
  • Money flowing to Southeast Asia was just a tide, and it's receding.
  • Southeast Asian markets are often benchmarked against single countries (e.g., Germany) which is misleading.
  • Many Southeast Asian founders have too small a vision, limiting their potential for growth.

Shownotes Transcript

"So that's why if you have 1 billion to invest, we're not expecting the same return as if you invest 10 million. At that time, when all this money flowed to Southeast Asia, people there thought, "Oh, we made it. Now the world is looking at us. We're finally a good ecosystem.' Everyone was ready to invest in us, but that was just the tide, right? And when the tide recedes, the first place the money will leave is Southeast Asia because it's not offering the best returns. So, the money is going out, and I don't think it's coming back anytime soon. People shouldn't expect investors to be as aggressive as they were. Lastly, great companies will always raise capital. The top ones will always find their way, so there's no issue for them. The challenge is for the ones just below them. It will be very difficult for those companies. Some will have to become much more capital-efficient, for sure." Fresh out of the studio, Arnaud Bonzom, founder of Black Mangroves and angel investor, engages in a lively discussion with our host about the entrepreneurial and venture capital landscape in Southeast Asia for 2024. Arnaud shares his insights on the evolution of late-stage funding and the resetting of expectations in the region’s venture capital scene. He also offers valuable advice to founders on how to navigate the challenging fundraising climate and what success could look like for the region in the coming years.

You can find Arnaud Bonzom at LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arnaudbonzom/) and X (formerly known as Twitter): https://x.com/ArnaudBonzom?)

Audio Episode Highlights: [0:44] Quote of the Day by Arnaud Bonzom #QOTD [2:09] Arnaud’s Reflections on Southeast Asia Since 2018 [5:28] Southeast Asia’s Economic Challenges [6:15] New Outlook for the Region’s Startup Ecosystem [10:37] Lessons from India’s B2B Market [14:31] How Venture Capital Works in Southeast Asia [16:52] Over-Optimism in Southeast Asia’s VC Landscape [24:27] Challenges in Attracting Foreign Investments [27:38] The U.S. as the Biggest Accessible Market [30:29] Market Segmentation in Asia Pacific [35:44] IPO Slowdown and M&A Challenges [37:59] Zombie Companies in Southeast Asia [39:14] The One Thing Arnaud knows about the SEA ecosystem that very few do [41:28] Explaining DPI (Distributions to Paid-In Capital) [47:48] Timing in Venture Capital Investments [51:48] Advice for Founders in 2023-2024 [53:33] Bottlenecks in Southeast Asia’s Startup Ecosystem [56:40] What does great look like for the Southeast Asia ecosystem? [58:45] Crypto Companies in Southeast Asia [60:44] Final Thoughts and Future of Southeast Asia’s Startup Ecosystem [61:10] Closing

Podcast Information: Bernard Leong hosts and produces the show. Proper credits for the intro and end music: "Energetic Sports Drive" and the episode is mixed & edited in both video and audio format by G. Thomas Craig

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