British Hodl - Why $900 Trillion of Global Wealth Will Be Coming Into Bitcoin
01:04:05 Share

Hey, hey, welcome to the Bitcoin Matrix. I'm your host, Cedric Youngleman. In this episode of the Bitcoin Matrix podcast, I chat with British Hoddle, a former gold and real estate investor turned Bitcoin advocate, about his journey into Bitcoin and his mission to help others secure their financial future. We discuss why he believes Bitcoin has already won and the impact of institutional players like BlackRock.

Packed with insights on global economics and Bitcoin's transformative potential, this is a must listen for anyone looking to better understand the Bitcoin revolution. So I hope you enjoy this rip. The only thing I'm going to ask of you is if you can please go and subscribe to our RSS feed or our YouTube channel. And if you do want to get in touch with me, it's Cedric at the Bitcoin Matrix dot com. And now let's enter the Bitcoin Matrix with the one and only British Hodl. What is real?

how do you define real you can't jump into cash cash is trash what do you do you get out british hodl is an ex-gold equities and real estate investor turned bitcoiner

British Hodl, welcome to the Bitcoin Matrix podcast. How are you, sir? Listen, firstly, thank you for having me. And it's an honor to be here. And congratulations for the work and everything that you're doing and the impact you're having. It's been amazing to watch. Oh, thank you. I really appreciate that. I'm excited to be here chatting with you today. It's a long time in the making. You've been on the circuit for a while. You know, it seems like with this last big push on, say, something like X or YouTube, your content,

you've been stressing and encouraging people to get to one Bitcoin. Why is that so important to you to get that message out? You know, that message started, I would say, you know, about a year and a half ago, let's say.

And the reason why it was important was that I knew what was coming. As soon as I started seeing certain conversations, as soon as I started seeing BlackRock, as soon as I started seeing, you know, the movers and shakers get into Bitcoin, I knew what was coming. And what was coming was quite simply an assault on Bitcoin.

Who can own this asset? And the only way that they know how to assault who can own an asset is by making it too expensive And so that's what has happened now It has become too expensive for most people to get to one Bitcoin and why I? Decided to put my you know foot on the pedal and get that message out there as quick as possible and hopefully those that have listened um, you know are now grateful for that because how many people probably zero point

you know four percent of the world can now afford to get to one Bitcoin at this moment in time it's it's insane when you think about it yeah sure what do you think though about like I mean Bitcoin might be always sort of uh inexpensive in relative relative terms uh you know maybe someone who doesn't get to one Bitcoin should they keep going should they keep trying should they keep stacking sats

You know, in terms of that, what do you think? What's your kind of advice there? Yeah, look, I have two hats that I wear, right? One hat is the heart of a Bitcoiner and the other hat is British Huddle, which is, you know, the reason why I decided to

become and play this role of British HODL on the internet is because I saw people like my parents who have spent 35 years building a property portfolio in the UK getting their wealth drained from them as the government just keeps printing more and more money.

and property prices are not able to keep up with the amount of money that's been printed. So that is really the person, and I've always said this, that is who I was trying to protect and trying to get the message out to, is people with those assets. But with the heart of a Bitcoiner, yeah, of course, you know, Bitcoin is the best money that we have, you know, as a collective species ever seen. And so, you know, the question is, if you're making $2,000 a month,

what other alternative do you have, right? So if you've got a disposable income of two, three, $400 on that $2,000 income, the only choice you have is Bitcoin, but at least you have that choice. With any other assets, when I was in real estate, when I was in different things, you didn't have that choice, right? And especially gold, like a lot of people say, you know, you had the choice of gold.

It's complete horseshit because if you were someone who was trying to put in two or three, $400 a month into gold, you were hit with 25% to 40% premiums on the gold price, which means that the gold would have to go up by 25% to 40% before you broke even because of the miniaturization of the brick that you had to buy.

And that was one of the advantages that someone like me had in gold, because I could buy gold at a 2% premium. And somebody who was buying a little bit of gold had to pay a 40% premium. And Bitcoin is the first time in human history where we can be single digit percentages away on our acquisition cost.

on an asset, whether I'm a multi-millionaire investing, Saylor's a multi-billionaire investing, or you're someone who's on a minimum wage salary. This is the first time in history that we've all been able to be single digit percentages away from our acquisition costs. Yeah. What has been the problem with savings up until now for people?

Look, the problem is, it's very simple. Wage inflation is not keeping up with the amount of money that's being printed. And this is how they drain wealth from the middle class. And you create an environment where you've got a widening gap between the upper class and the lower class.

And the strength of your country and the strength of my country has been on a strong middle class. And unfortunately, with the amount of money printing that's been happening, you're draining that middle class of its energy. And then what makes a good investor these days in your eyes?

Someone who realizes that Bitcoin is now the new hurdle rate. Any investor, in order to stay ahead of the curve, has to realize what their hurdle rate is. Hurdle rate is basically the minimum in return that you've got to be able to make in order to keep up with, you know, the amount of money printing that's going on, not to move backwards. Right. So the absolute minimum hurdle rate for, in my opinion, should be somewhere between seven to 10 percent, which is, you know, the compound rate of how much money has been printed. A.

A wealth, an investor focused on growing their wealth has to look at it and go, OK, what is my hurdle rate based on? And I would highly recommend that people base their hurdle rates on on the compound annual growth rate of Bitcoin, not on the amount of money that's been printed. And once you once you do that, you know, there's nothing better than Bitcoin for actually growing your wealth.

So what makes a good investor? Understanding when your hurdle rate has shifted. If you think about any of these investors, these remarkable investors that are in the world, they're all focused on a particular hurdle rate, whether it's the S&P 500 with Warren Buffett, whether it's Paul Tudor Jones, who's focused on what is the average blended hurdle rate of a growth portfolio, or whether it's the S&P 500 with Warren Buffett,

whatever it is, but that should be your number one focus is, are you wise enough to realize that your hurdle rate has changed and therefore your strategy has to change? Now, I mean, we're entering a new era in Bitcoin, it seems like, with Trump and politics. What is your take on 2025 and sort of having our first Bitcoin president? What kind of impact does that have on Bitcoin?

Yeah, it's the single biggest shift that, you know, I wasn't expecting the president of the United States to become an avid Bitcoin spokesperson in 2024. I don't know whether that was on your bingo card or not, but it definitely wasn't online.

to me was enough, but I saw the downstream effects of it. I knew it was coming because this is how BlackRock works, right? This is how asset managers work. You figure out how to own as much of an asset as possible, then you figure out how to lobby the politicians to move in the direction that you want them to move in. If anyone thinks

that your senator, or no matter how smart you think any politician is and how much you love them, if you think that they went from being negative on Bitcoin to suddenly being positive on Bitcoin because they suddenly woke up and read the Bitcoin standard, you are insane.

They got a phone call, right? This is how I imagine it works. They got a phone call and they were told, you are now pro-Bitcoin. And if they said no, then that funding was moved towards their competitor, right? That's what happened. And suddenly everyone became pro-Bitcoin. It doesn't work. People give so much credit to politicians when their side wins, right? And I don't like that. You've got to be able to sit on...

an objective opinion of these politicians, no matter whether they're winning or losing, right? So if you think that a Republican senator, there might be two of them that are smart, but I don't think the majority of them that are now pro-Bitcoin are smart. I think they've moved in that direction. And then what do you think of Trump launching a coin? You know, I put a tweet out about this. I think it's a misstep, right? Where

I think the way branding deals work is that you sign your name over. He's done this many times on buildings and stuff. You sign your name over and then the company goes ahead and uses that name for the product that they're launching. Trump is not in charge of these meme coins, right? President Trump himself is not in charge of these meme coins.

But I think that, you know, again, hindsight is 20-20. And if I was that person in that role of president of the United States, I would probably put a stipulation in the contract saying you cannot make or do any launches at least 30 or 45 days on either side of the inauguration. Right. So put it like this.

I just think it's a misstep. I think that it could have been done better if they were going to do it anyway. One way I kind of thinking about it a little bit about sort of the tokenization of everything, maybe with this presidency in this era.

What do you think? What is BlackRock's endgame with Bitcoin? BlackRock's an asset manager, right? Their endgame is to manage assets and then generate a fee on those assets in order to make their shareholders happy. That's BlackRock's game, right? So what BlackRock needs is they need...

Bitcoin going to a million dollars, which by the way, Larry Fink started perp walking Bitcoin to a million dollars at Davos. I don't know whether you saw that little clip or not. Right. Larry Fink being on an interview saying Bitcoin could go to $700,000 a coin is unreal for him to say that. And he said it casually. And then earn a quarter basis point for you for that. And then build and invest in businesses that are, you know, in the Bitcoin space. Yeah.

And that's really BlackRock's goal here. Their objective is to find an asset, grow it up, explode it, and then profit off of it. Do you think they're going to manipulate Bitcoin in any way or attempt to? Yeah, I think they're going to manipulate the price upwards. Fair enough. Okay. People always ask me this question, like, do you think BlackRock...

What other manipulation are they incentivized to do? I can't think of anything. I could think of, you know, some cons that could come out of sort of the centralization of a lot of holdings, maybe in terms of on ramps, off ramps, maybe pushing Bitcoin more towards holdings.

purely a store of value and not a medium of exchange. But that's what it is, right? Until you can get rid of the taxes on a Bitcoin transaction, it is going to be...

Right. That's the U.S. government's control mechanism on not making it a medium of exchange. And I don't care whether, you know, El Salvador makes it a medium of exchange or not. That's, you know, whatever. It's whether the United States does it. That's the most important one. Do you think the United States will make it a legal tender or non-taxable transactions in, let's say, one to two years time? No. Impossible. Impossible.

What about Saab 121 allowing banks to hold Bitcoin? Yeah, I think that's great. Yeah, I think Bitcoin is going through a securitization process.

I think it is a better securitized collateral than real estate. And I think that that absolutely should happen. And if I know and my instinct is right on how BlackRock works, then that exactly will happen. And what do you think then about a strategic Bitcoin reserve? And what does that mean for Bitcoin? Do you think something along those lines are going to happen in the next decade?

let's say, one to three months, six months, 12 months, whether it's holding the coins on the balance sheet or buying new coins. Yeah, I think both of those things is going to start happening. I don't know about the next one month or three months, but certainly I think that is not only in the cards, but that is absolutely going to start happening. And what does that do for something like Bitcoin's price in the near future if

America starts stacking. Yeah, think about it, right? It's not just America at that point because the moment America starts stacking, the rest of the G20 are now in.

Whether they want to be in or then or they don't want to be in, they're now in because just from a strategic game theory point of view, you have to be in. Right. So with America starting a strategic reserve, you've not it's not just one strategic reserve. It's every central bank printed currency turning into a strategic reserve immediately.

There's no question about it. You just have to do it strategically. There's huge news. But, you know, something that is already happening is MicroStrategy is acquiring Bitcoin at a rapid rate. Why do traders like MicroStrategy? The one thing traders have not had is a product that is providing them a sufficient amount of volatility to profit from.

And MicroStrategy has decided that we're going to basically take our stock, which was a tech business doing half a bill a year, and turn it into a volatile platform for you to speculate on. You've got to think about MicroStrategy as like a social network for capital, right? In a social network, what do you have? You have...

People on the pro side of an argument, you have people on the negative side of the argument, right? This is a bid and ask. In the market, we call it a bid and ask. There is the sell side of the debate. There is the buy side of the debate. And the reason why social networks take off is because all these people can get on the social network and argue with each other.

That is what is going on with MicroStrategy right now. If you look at MicroStrategy as a social network for capital that wants to speculate on Bitcoin, that is exactly what's happening. And the platform itself becomes worth hundreds of billions, if not trillions of dollars, because it is the place where all of this capital can have this argument, can have this bid and ask spread, can have this volatility and then profit from it.

So that's the way that MicroStrategy is formed itself. It is now a platform for speculation on top of Bitcoin. Then how do you value or model something like MicroStrategy?

Yeah, that's a good question. And we're going to start finding that out within like 10 days when they come out with their first earnings. Because up until now, you have not been able to justify a trade in MicroStrategy based on every single model that any hedge fund would be putting together. They've got to put these models together and then justify the actual trade that they want to do to hedge funds, to their clients, to everyone else. And they can't do that right now because there's no earnings.

So what has changed is the FASB rules, which changed the way that Bitcoin is held on the balance sheet in terms of accounting. And that is going to come into effect in the first earnings that are coming out in like 10 days, 14 days, whatever it is. I thought they wouldn't adopt that until Q1 earnings are announced at the end of March. I believe it's coming. I don't think it's for Q4. I believe so. That'd be interesting. Yeah.

Either way, what do you think of using sort of MNAV as a way or an approach to value micro strategy? Yeah, I was I was on I got I got MSTR wrong at the beginning. Right. I thought it was a de facto Bitcoin ETF. And I didn't really see the long term game of what was being built here. And then I had to I was right for about three weeks after the ETFs came out and then I was aggressively wrong for three months afterwards.

which forced me to reevaluate my perspective. I think MNav is an inefficient way of looking at micro strategy. I think that's...

You've got to look at MicroStrategy as a growth company and the platform that it's providing, not as a de facto Bitcoin ETF. When you look at it as a de facto Bitcoin ETF, it doesn't make any sense. It always kind of feels like the value must drop to the value of the Bitcoin that they hold because it is a de facto Bitcoin ETF. When you understand that it is a growth company,

And the question that investors will ask is, do I want to take on all of the risk of Nvidia for the growth that I want to pursue? Or should I just give it to MicroStrategy? And that's really the question that starts driving the value of MSTR up. Sure. Would you compare maybe MicroStrategy to like a Google?

You know, future Google in terms of yes, it is a mag seven, I think the new mag eight is going to be all the mag seven plus, plus micro strategy, that is your ultimate growth portfolio, if you want diversification, what what, how can micro strategy keep the market interested in the stock for the long term? Why does the stock? Why is the stock so interesting?

well think about it on a social network right we're on bitcoin twitter all day what keeps what keeps bitcoin twitter interesting it's when there's arguments going on let's just face it right we're all dopamine hopped up on on arguments on as soon as peter schiff tweets something negative we're all on it like uh you know like it's a house on fire like

That's how you keep someone interested in something is keep the dopamine receptors flying. And that's what Michael Saylor knows. And the only way a stock keeps someone interested and keeps dopamine receptors rolling is through the volatility of the share price. So he understands that he's got a couple of different levers that he can use to drive up and down the share price in the process of acquiring more and more Bitcoin and

And as he does that, it is going to keep MicroStrategy the most interesting stock for the next decade. How fast can MicroStrategy scale their Bitcoin buys in 2025? Just depends. Just depends on the amount of capital they get access to. I mean, you know, I don't think anyone was expecting a $42 billion

financing facility that shareholders gave them, but shareholders gave it to them, understood the strategy, understood what's going on, and we'll see how far that can scale. Right now, MicroStrategy is severely under-levered. If Michael Saylor came to you as a friend

and said hey i've got a house it's worth a million dollars i've got a mortgage of a hundred and fifty thousand dollars on it and i want to buy some bitcoin what's the first thing that you would tell them tell him to do that is refi the house

Right. That's pretty much where MicroStrategy is on an LTV basis. So there's they can take on a lot more leverage than than they have right now. Is the ATM strategy working for Saylor? Do you see them deploying a lot more of that in 2025? Yes, but I think we've had I think Saylor will use the ATM strategy.

at moments. I think that, again, the big shareholders don't have an issue with the ATM going on. The ATM argument and the fact that it's been overpressured and the share prices come down, etc., etc., has really been on Bitcoin Twitter and retail that doesn't understand what's really going on. So,

If you're a big shareholder, you want that share price to crash because you also want it to skyrocket tomorrow. What does that do? It drives up the implied volatility on the options side and brings more capital into the stock. And all in the meantime, you're acquiring more and more Bitcoin. So if you're in it for a two-month trade, an ATM is a bad idea. If you're in it holding it for a decade, the ATM is one of the best tools that Michael Sellers discovered to do this.

And thinking about sort of valuing a company, is there any model that you think works for Bitcoin or how do you think about valuing Bitcoin going forward?

So it's very tough. I value it as a as a store of value asset at this moment in time. And I look at other store of value assets and I just compare it. I can't, you know, figure out a model. Many people have tried and many people have failed of trying to figure out a model to consistently value Bitcoin. And it just doesn't it doesn't work. I think you've got to look at it as a store of value and look at the market cap and go, OK, what is the potential for this thing?

So then maybe thinking about, you know, people getting to one Bitcoin, how much Bitcoin do does someone need to retire? That's a good question. Depends how you retire. If you're smoking Cuban cigars like me all day, I don't think one Bitcoin is going to going to suffice. But, you know, the average person, I think one Bitcoin is around, you know, the bare minimum that you will need to retire in the next four or five years. And what kind of maybe price prediction do you put on Bitcoin in maybe 10 years from now?

That's a that's a good question. Again, I think we're entering out of all of the models or the way to think about Bitcoin's adoption. The one that I gravitate to the most is the S curve. Right. I think there is going I think we are entering a period where there is a there is going to be a capital saturation moment, just like Tesla had in 2019, when everyone just decides that they need to own some of this asset.

And then all of the $900 trillion of capital is going to pursue it on some level or a certain percentage of that capital will pursue it. So, you know, I don't know how to even answer that question on a price prediction because the way Bitcoin works and the way assets generally work with the price being set at the margin is,

Combine that with a scarce asset, the first ever scarce asset that we've ever created on a scale like this.

And I don't know, I genuinely don't know what could happen to price. I think plan B with his $475,000 target for this cycle could be right. I think all the people that are saying it's only going to get to $200,000 this cycle could be right. But over 10 years, I think we're way above a million dollars. What do you see in terms of cycles going forward? We've had three cycles before the current era.

It's not a large sample set. Do we have cycles going forward? Yeah, it's interesting. I was thinking about this while I was smoking a cigar with a friend the other day. And I think that the more I look at it, the more my mindset is changing on cycles. I think if you look at the gold price chart after 2004, which is when the ETFs came out,

Gold had a consistent eight up years, right? And that includes going through 2008. So I have a feeling that we're about to bore the shit out of everyone and also go up to a million dollars, right? I think that's what's happening. I can't see the incentive for someone like BlackRock. Again, you follow the incentives and you generally get to the right answer. I can't see...

the incentives for someone like BlackRock to allow a 400% increase in price in the space of a month and a half, and then an 80% dip for three years. That doesn't make sense to me that that would be the preferred option for BlackRock. It makes more sense that you go up 20, 30%, you go sideways,

For three months, you go up another 20, 30 percent. You go up sideways for three months. You go up another 20, 30 percent and you just do that for a decade. That makes more sense because, again, you're earning fees. Right. BlackRock's earning fees and all these investment managers are earning fees. Plus, you have the ability to control the downside of the market now anyway. Right. If BlackRock makes a couple of phone calls and gives micro strategy calls.

you know, $30 billion in convertible debt in order to buy Bitcoin, you've basically hedged the downside for the whole market. Does this mean Bitcoin is less volatile going forward? It means that Bitcoin is more volatile in certain periods of time and it's to the upside because you can't control the... BlackRock can control the downside. They cannot control the upside because of the finality of the asset. That's the issue. Because at some point, people could just stop selling Bitcoin.

You can't just print an asset out of thin air. The reason why gold stopped going up after a certain point, even with the ETFs in play, was because it takes about eight years, eight to 10 years for new gold mining investment to turn into real gold bars in your hand. So what happened was since the ETFs came out, investment jacked up and it took eight years for that supply to hit the market to stabilize the price, which is why it had eight years of up.

The problem with Bitcoin is I don't care how much money comes into Bitcoin. You cannot take down that. You cannot increase the supply. So based on that, I think you can control the debt. You can hedge the downside. I don't know if you can if you can control the upside. Right. And considering all this, have you have you ever sold any Bitcoin and are you ever going to sell more Bitcoin?

Bitcoin if you have and if you haven't are you ever going to? I've not sold any Bitcoin. I've certainly spent Bitcoin. I don't believe in selling Bitcoin because the question is when you sell it, what are you selling it for? You're selling it for US dollars but I think if someone has a significant amount of Bitcoin and they need to spend it to make their life better I think that's a personal choice that everyone needs to make and I don't see anything wrong with that.

So I don't believe in selling Bitcoin, but I do believe in spending it to make your life better. Yeah, it's money. And speaking of life's getting better, Ross was recently freed. Any thoughts on on Ross getting pardoned? I think it was extremely important. I think it was extremely important for the president and the administration to do that. I think it was, you know, for me thinking as a strategic investor, of course, I have, you know, the human heart side of me, which is so grateful that Ross is free.

But at the same time, I'm actually even more excited by the signal that it sends that we are taking this very seriously. This administration is taking this very seriously. You know, if they weren't, I don't think he would have been freed within the first 24 hours of Trump taking office. I'm curious, you're famous for kind of being a global traveler and Dubai, London, and I

I didn't get to say hello, but I think I saw you at the sailor party. I apologize. What a hectic night, huh? I apologize as well. I wish I got to chat with you for a bit. What do you think of the American economy right now? I think the American economy is phenomenally strong at this point. I can't see where the holes are at this moment in time. Um,

It's so strong that the market's hesitant to go up because they're wondering whether the Federal Reserve is going to continue holding its hand around the American economy's neck and not to let it go. And of course, Trump is now in, in which case Trump needs to, Trump's philosophy is basically, you know, drill, baby, drill as much as you can on all aspects. So,

I think the American economy is incredibly strong. I think America has made, you know, if I may say so myself as a non-American, has made the best choice in terms of president for the next four years. And we'll continue to see what this turns into. But I think America is in a really, really, really good position right now.

Certainly, certainly better than the UK. And does it excite you? Would you live in America? Would you, have you ever lived in America? Would you consider living here? Did Trump change that or, or the policy, um, just sort of things change recently or anything like that? No, my opinion on myself living inside of America has not changed simply because I have a tax advantage for not living inside of America. As a non-American citizen, I don't have worldwide taxation based on my passport. Um,

I would love to live inside of America if we can change the tax laws and I don't have to pay taxes. If I choose to go live somewhere else the majority of the year, I don't really want to pay American taxes. So if the tax laws change, I certainly would consider it. But just to put that into perspective, most of my wealth is managed through the US. It's not managed through the UK. And

most of the top the places that I choose to spend time in are very very interlinked with the U.S. so I'm a very very pro America being number one person at this moment in time but at the same time I can't see myself choosing to to live in the U.S. especially when I can take advantage of all of the benefits of the U.S. without actually living there. Can you describe maybe more how

these places you live in are interlinked with the U.S. and what that means? Yeah, so for example, you know, Dubai, which is where I spend most of my time now,

is pegged against the US dollar. Their currency is completely pegged against the US dollar. They have very, very interlinked from a military perspective, very, very interlinked on an agenda perspective on what's going on with the US agenda and the US dominance of the world, etc., etc. So there is a lot of interplay between

the UAE and America at this point. And I think, you know, if I was put to put my conspiracy theory hat on, I think America is probably supporting, you know, the UAE or the Middle East to become its Switzerland, which is what Europe has, you know, Switzerland has been basically Europe, Switzerland for a long time.

And I think after the Ukraine war, if I was to really put my, you know, stretch my brain out, I think the way I could see it is that this place is becoming Switzerland for America. And what do you what do you make of maybe where the UK is going? Yeah, again, I'm born in the UK. I'm a British passport holder. I love the UK. I love for what the UK has stood for in the past. I am not proud of what the UK is standing for at this moment in time.

And it got to a point for me where it was, you know, every conversation felt like fighting against the UK that I loved. And so I had to make a choice at one point. And that choice was eventually that I have to leave. And luckily, I can do that. And it was a heartbreaking choice. You know, a lot of Brits that I meet that have the same sort of mindset as me,

What we were what's quite funny is when you're in the UAE, what you realize is a lot of the UAE, the royalty of the UAE studied or are heavily influenced by British culture and British sensibilities. And so when you come to the UAE, it's almost like you are sort of back in the way that the UK should be in a weird way. Right. There's a there's a there's an affinity for the United Kingdom and what it once was.

And I wish the UK had that. Absolutely, I wish the UK had that. So I do not think the UK is in a good position. It's sad to say that the biggest hope that I have for the UK is the fact that President Trump is the president of the US because the UK being an ally, I think it will be dragged along kicking and screaming until it figures out that, you know, it needs to fix up.

Do you think there are any countries, militarily or economically, that can threaten the United States hegemony in the near term? If you had asked me this question, I don't know, four months ago, I think my answer would have been different. But at this point, I think you have a pretty good team in place to protect U.S. hegemony, U.S. superiority.

I think technology is the best in the U.S., and I think certainly from a military perspective, technology is the number one biggest advantage point that the U.S. has. So right now, no, I don't see any major threats from my understanding and my level of access to information that the U.S. is facing at this moment in time. But you never know what the future holds. What do you think of El Salvador?

Is there any conspiracy theories there? Well, just, you know, what Bukele has accomplished, maybe where they're going, and why are they being allowed to do it? Yeah, I think El Salvador is a very, very interesting case study. And President Bukele has done a wonderful, wonderful job for a South American country, right? He's certainly shown people what an iron fist can do very quickly. I think that

A lot of Americans that are very pro-Bucheli, even the conservative ones, would not want the actions that Bucheli had to take in order to do that happening inside of America, even though they support it happening over there.

And I think that causes an interesting level of tension, right? It's like, yeah, that's cool over there, but I wouldn't want that happening here, even though I know that it can generate the best results for a country. So I think that that's quite interesting to me. But look, I think he's done an amazing job. The fact that he keeps getting all the support that he's getting from his own people is wonderful. And I think he's going to do more for that country than anyone could have done in the next hundred years. So he's doing an amazing job from what I can see.

You know, interesting. MicroStrategy was, generally speaking, copied by smaller corporations. Yep. Are you surprised at all that maybe smaller nations or neighboring nations didn't copy El Salvador or follow their example? Again, putting my conspiracy theory hat on, I think El Salvador has probably, you know, been given...

permissions to go forth and do what they're doing. Again, I don't know any different, but just putting my conspiracy theory hat on. I think the IMF that was moving very, very close to Chinese interests, this is a way to start destabilizing the IMF a little bit and bring back interest in a U.S. direction.

There's a lot of geopolitics being played in it. I see, I always see geopolitics. Geopolitics is being played on every front right now. And if you're not smart enough to look past the surface of what's going on, then you're going to miss everything that's happening. But I think a lot of the things that are changing in the world drastically are happening because geopolitical changes right now. Do you see it as like,

Is your frame of mind like Bitcoin's already won? Yes. And what does that mean? Like, what would have been what are the signs that Bitcoin is won then in your mind? You've got the president of the United States of America standing up and saying, we're going to create a strategic Bitcoin reserve. It's game over. Every tailwind turned into a headwind the moment he said that.

You've got BlackRock standing up and saying, Larry Fink standing up and saying at Davos that Bitcoin could go to $700,000 a coin. It is game over. Bitcoin has won right now. And the problem is, is that in the Bitcoin space, we're going to be used to like going through wars for years. Right. And so what we're going to get now is the single most exciting thing that could happen to Bitcoin, in my opinion, already happened.

ever, which is the fact that BlackRock got into the game caused the downspill of everything else. We're now going to use President Trump as a mascot. But the fact that BlackRock got into the game caused that. That was the single most important day for Bitcoin's next evolution. How orange-pilled do you think President Trump is? And what do you, I mean, yeah, I'll start there. I don't care.

Don't care. Okay. It seems like in a very short period of time, he's got a large, maybe his greatest source of his net worth is now what appears to be in crypto. That's apparently what the rumor is. But this is basically $500 million that was extracted from the meme coin that happened. That's a great talking point, but I don't know what the real facts are around that. But it's kind of cool if it's true, huh?

It's very interesting from so many different levels. Obviously, I don't like shit coins. I don't like maybe grifting, but I totally expect all presidents to grift, raise money, be entrepreneurial, and profit from their candidacy and their presidency. It's just sort of the norm. And I also think it kind of

uh could give him a lot of different opportunities to uh airdrop tokens to his supporters maybe if they sign for emails maybe they got to sign up a list or prove they voted i mean there's very different things you could do with all that capital and i think it speaks to sort of the the hyper inflation hyper inflationary error that we're in and uh how these you know you could spin up uh

we'll call it value very quickly. And maybe everything, you know, this just, everything melts up. So what do you think are some of the biggest problems in the Bitcoin space? That's a really good question. I think Bitcoin Twitter, you know, I think I came in to Bitcoin in this transitionary phase of going from, you know, the hodler of old to,

And I don't mean to say he's old, but like my friend American Hoddle, right? Like he's been in the space for long enough. He's a philosopher and a hardcore Bitcoiner at heart. And I came in in the transitionary phase of between that and like TradFi coming in. And I think that the biggest problem is that Bitcoiners, like old school Bitcoiners, are not spending enough time

understanding how TradFi works because they think that they can do it better because of Bitcoin. And I do not agree with that because we have to conquer that game first.

So I think that's one of the biggest issues. I think Bitcoin would be a much better community. And the beautiful thing is there's a lot of people who have come into Bitcoin to talk about Bitcoin since I got in who are TradFi people, who are in this world and who are creating content and who are talking about it, because I think that's going to really help.

Bitcoin is understanding, grow up in this space and understand how lending works, securitization works and all these things work. Why MSTR is working, why it doesn't just go up in a straight line, why it does go up in a straight line sometimes. I think all of this, you know, when was the last time you ever heard a small group of, you know, basically libertarians start talking about convertible bonds?

Right. Like this is this is huge from an evolution perspective, per se. You wrote on Twitter that there are three rules to Bitcoin. Buy Bitcoin. Shut the fuck up. Get fabulously wealthy. What is what was your rabbit hole story like?

How did you come across Bitcoin? What did you think of it at first? Yeah, I thought Bitcoin was a complete scam when I first came across it because the TradFi world and the friends that I was in just basically wrote it off as a scam. And then, you know, 2020 came around. By the way, I had bought Bitcoin and doubled my money in two weeks and sold it and this, that and the other. And then in 2020, a friend of mine, I was actually taking a flight from South America back to the U.K.,

And he called me and he said, listen, this is going to sound crazy, but we're not going to have another conversation until you read this book. And it was the Bitcoin standard. So I got back to London and then the lockdown happened. And I was walking around the park just listening to this book because, you know, I respect my friend a lot. And.

There was a moment in that book where Saifedean talks about the idea of stock to flow. I don't mean the stock to flow price model or anything like that. It wasn't around then. But just the idea of the concept of stock to flow. And I remember stopping in the middle of this park listening to this book and I just realized all of a sudden, because I have a gold background, we use stock to flow in gold all the time.

And I just realized that I had completely messed up how I was looking at Bitcoin. And I was looking at it like an equity when I should have been looking at it like a commodity. And right in that moment, everything changed for me. And I went from zero to 100 very quickly.

Okay, what was going from zero to 100 like? Like, was it really just around investing or what about sort of maybe did Bitcoin change you at all? Has it changed you? Hey, Bitcoiners, invest in Bitcoin with confidence. Why do I recommend River? River is the best place to build your Bitcoin wealth and they offer zero fee on recurring buys.

proven full reserve custody. Earn 3.8% interest on cash paid in Bitcoin. Put your cash to work and earn Bitcoin. Cash is FDIC insured, no hidden fees or minimums and withdraw your cash at any time. River makes it simple and secure to save your wealth in Bitcoin. Get $100 when you sign up and buy Bitcoin on River at river.com forward slash matrix.

No, I don't think it's in terms of like my execution and all this other stuff. I don't think it has. I think maybe, you know, I think it came at a time in my life where I was sort of becoming more and more low time preference anyway. And I think it certainly helped that. But yeah.

Yeah, I mean, it went zero from 100 in terms of my portfolio. I allocated, I think, 20% of the portfolio very quickly. And then by November, I've been a gold guy for so long. By November of 2020, I sold my entire gold portfolio and put it all into Bitcoin. That was a big move because all my friends in gold thought I was a moron when I was doing that. And I remember telling them, if you can tell me

The exact amount of grams of gold that came out of the earth yesterday, I'll move 50% of my position back. And of course, nobody can tell you because they don't know, right? Gold is a game of faith at this point. So, you know, that's what it was. And then I started focusing on my parents and the people around me and things like that.

How did you become a gold bug? I shouldn't call you a gold bug. How did you get into gold? I was a gold bug for real. I was in real estate and equities. And then 2007 to 2009 hit. And I just fell down the rabbit hole of how corrupt the money was and everything else. And gold was the premier solution at that point. Until I realized that

It's a complete lie, simply because you cannot control the supply, simply because the or rather because you can control the supply, simply because you can manipulate the supply. The whole gold argument is a lie. And if you by the way, look at the gold valued in M2 since the 80s, you realize that from a value perspective, it peaked out in the 80s and it's never caught up.

you uh anti-state in any way you don't come across as sort of very political or anti-government but uh no i'm not anti-state yeah and what do you think is the true opportunity of bitcoin maybe for someone who you know is kind of just trying to understand it from the beginning or it doesn't mean from a financial perspective or from a beyond the finances perspective i'd like to maybe for you to tackle both let's start with maybe the finances

Look, I think from a financial perspective, I think you finally have the opportunity to have money that nobody else can control. Nobody else can inflate away from you. Nobody else can put a ring around it and say it's not yours anymore.

And I think that sovereignty and that independence is very, very important. And I think some people will choose to take it and some people won't. The people that choose to take it will be the same ones that chose to take it with real estate and will be the same ones that chose to take it with growth stocks, et cetera, et cetera. And they'll do really well. I think that

From a beyond the finances perspective on Bitcoin, I think Bitcoin is an opportunity to end 230 years of financial subjugation that the world has been put through and the trauma that the world has been put through as a result of it. And I think that's a very important mission and a very important message and a very important spiritual quest for the world to go on. How long do you think it takes to get to something like that? A very long time. We've got a lot of spiritual corruption in the world right now.

In terms of maybe financialization, how do you think of maybe the future on a Bitcoin standard? And, you know, maybe biblically people thought about, you know, 30% in your house, 30% in your business, 30% in hard money. How would you think about maybe Bitcoin in a future world and how people think about

portfolios, construction or things like that. Again, I think Bitcoin becomes a hurdle rate from a financial point of view. And I think, you know, for me, one of the things that conclusions I had to come to when I was thinking about what do I do with my capital is I had to humble myself and realize that I personally do not know how to outgrow Bitcoin.

right in terms of what I wanted to do and what I want I think about what I want to do so therefore I have to sit in this asset no matter how painful it is I have to sit here until this changes and I think that will change at some point because I think enough capital will get saturated into the market and then the keg will come down and at that point it might be worth doing something else in order to increase fiat returns or whatever else right um I I think

I think that people are really going to... This isn't going to be as easy as people think. And when you've got people like BlackRock in the game, they're going to make it as hard as possible. Because the more painful they can make it, the more you are likely to sell this. And they want to own as much of it as possible. I do not think this is going to be... We're going straight to several millions of dollars a coin without a fight here. And I think it's going to be a...

Quite a tough fight mentally, by the way. And, you know, I'm not a religious person, but there's one verse in the Bible. I'm going to completely butcher it. So forgive me. But it's it's it's the it's the verse about owning the truth and never selling it. And I think that Bitcoin is truth. And I think that Bitcoin inspires true wisdom. Bitcoin forces you to pursue truth.

Because it is the best mirror that we've ever created as an investment class. And I think that's pretty powerful. And so I think people should own the truth and never sell it. I really agree. I think Bitcoin is a truth machine. And I think the one thing we have in common as Bitcoiners is that we're truth seekers. Right.

What is your perception of your role in the space? Yeah, I think it's changed a lot. I knew my perception, I knew my role in the space was never going to be the role of someone like Saifedean, for example, right? Like, I think he's an amazing educator in the space and a philosopher. The way I saw my role was that I had all the books, right? When I speak about my parents, like,

I had all the books. I gave them all the books. They didn't read them, right? And they didn't read them until I, you know, metaphorically here, I'm not saying this as a metaphor, until I grabbed their heads and threw them against a fucking wall and shoved their heads under a barrel of water and forced them to drink it. They didn't do it, right? Metaphorically now. So, yeah.

That's my role that I see myself having played in Bitcoin. And I said this right from the beginning. I'm not here to really be this philosopher or educator. I'm here to tell you that you are going to fuck your life and your progeny if you don't pay attention to this.

So that's how I have seen my role. And now I'm questioning it, I'll be honest with you, like after us going past $100,000 Bitcoin,

We're now one of the things I didn't expect to happen, which happened was that, you know, I thought we were OK. So the bottom part has been taken care of. These are the early adopters in terms of net worth. Right. And then we're going to hit the 30 to 500,000 to 30 million. And then we're going to go to the billion. That didn't happen. BlackRock came in, said these guys got an idea. It's really cool. Let's jump straight to the top and get those people in real quick.

And so the people that are going to end up being fucked the most are the people like my parents, which is $500,000 to $30 million net worth. And that's who I wanted to protect, right? And so now I look at it and I go, okay, well, Bitcoin is $100,000 a coin. I don't know whether you know people that have got, say, $3,000,000, $4,000,000, $5,000,000, $6,000,000 in real estate that can afford to spend $100,000 on an asset that they don't understand. I don't.

Right. And they don't want to do the work because they feel comfortable thinking that I'm worth three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine million dollars. So therefore, I don't need to do the work. Not many people are liquid. Right. When people talk about net worth, they're really talking about illiquid net worth. And the majority of people in that five hundred thirty million dollar every study has shown this are basically it's their it's their real estate that where their capital is. And so that's who I wanted to save. Right.

And I don't know where you go from. I don't know where I go from this. Right. There's obviously perspectives that I have on the market and I think they're interesting. But, you know, where do you go from after a hundred thousand dollar coin like your audience to get to one Bitcoin is zero point four percent of the world and they're all rich. Well, I mean, I still I still think that.

from an empowerment perspective, you get your first set and you start yourself on this journey of, uh, you're gonna be immensely wealthy one day because the value of future sets on some timeframe, but usually, you know, you gotta start somewhere. And I think there's a mind shift there that can happen in the very beginning. I still think there's a great opportunity going forward for people to stack sets at $10 a day or, you know, $10 a week or something to get to a better place.

but I definitely hear what you're saying. I also wonder, Bitcoiners go through a purity test, I think, online. I think you've kind of gone through that a lot. A couple of times. Yeah. How'd you think I did? I mean, I think you've done really well. I mean, all I've seen from you for the last

Three or four years is get to one Bitcoin. That's all I've heard you say. And you've stayed on message. I haven't seen anything else. And if there is anything, what I would say to anyone on that front, though, is like, take the ideas you like. Do not take the ideas you don't like. I mean, someone could have really good ideas. And if they're doing something you don't like, grifting or something else, you don't have to partake and you don't have to voluntarily go into their thing. But take the good points of the message. But I think you've been on point. You know, I invite you on the show. Yeah.

uh i relate a lot with trying to get parents on board um that's you know a tough journey to kind of you know maybe they're i think of my parents as my closest friends especially my dad before he passed i wonder if you're going to change your message to get to 0.1 bitcoin asap never uh you know i i think it still does the same thing for people on just a different

No, I'm never going to change my message. I evaluated that and I spoke to people that I really respect. And some people said yes, some people said no. And then my heart just told me that my message should never, ever change. And the reason for that is because I think that, you know, like art, we had art back in the day when art was good. And what art would do is mark a moment in time for people.

Whatever good art you have, music, whatever it was, it always marks a moment in your life. And that's what I want my message to be, a moment in time. And I want that moment in time to make you proud of yourself if you deserve to be and make you beat yourself up if that's what you deserve.

And I think that that's what I would want my message to be. It's a moment in time and that's all it is. Now there are many other people who are in the space talking about get to one Bitcoin, get to 0.25 Bitcoin, get to 0.5 Bitcoin, whatever it is. And that's cool. That's their journey. My journey is you get to one Bitcoin or you die trying. Like 50 cent, 50-brity. What does the future hold for British HODL? Where do you see yourself in five or 10 years?

I think more family focused. I think my journey was focused on wealth first rather than family first. So I think it's more family focused. I think I've accomplished a lot of what I wanted to accomplish. I've got some other business ideas and this, that and the other that I have.

will focus on. And I think I will be in the Bitcoin space on some level. I just don't know what that looks like just yet, if I'm being completely honest. So we'll see. You know one thing I really enjoy? Will I disappear? I didn't mean to cut you off. No, no. Will I disappear? I had this kind of fantasy, to be honest. I had this kind of fantasy that I would disappear, just stop making videos and stop tweeting and stop doing everything. But you know one of the most rewarding things that

Has ever happened to me in this space. By the way, being, you know, British Hollow and talking British Hollow shit has been one of the most fulfilling things I've ever done because not a single penny has been made from this, right? And if you've been following me on Twitter, you know that the money that I get paid from Twitter, I donate to a military charity in the UK that I support anyway. And then one of the most rewarding things I've ever experienced is someone...

messaging me and saying, because of you and because of your ass kicking, I got to one Bitcoin and I live in a third world nation. And then there's just all this whole stack of eventualities that should have worked against them. And they've managed to do it anyway. That's unbelievable.

And the fact that I can sit here and make videos with no editing, with no sponsors, with no advertising. I don't even have monetization done on YouTube, ever. And the fact that that can happen is unbelievable. So who knows what this turns into, but so far that's been the...

That's been the goal. I've been approached by companies to want to do promotional deals and whatever else. And I haven't I've said no so far. But who knows? One of the things I value a lot is and I had this at Sailor's Party. A lot of people came up to me and were talking about watching my videos. And one of the things I realized was that no matter how no matter how what we're seeing is familiar to me, it doesn't mean that it's familiar to everyone.

And I kind of see now and I appreciate rather the value of being someone that can explain these things, especially when I see Bitcoiners that are learning about finance, learning about these things that can't just yet. So I kind of really enjoy that. I really enjoy breaking down what's going on with MicroStrategy in a way that is understandable for people.

And yeah, so we'll see. I don't know if I'll completely disappear or not. It was a fantasy though for a while, I must admit. Especially when I was going through those purity tests. What the fuck am I doing this for?

Well, then any highlights personal from Sailor's Party or any getting to meet anyone from Bitcoin Twitter that you were really excited to at the Sailor's Party or somewhere else? Yeah, I mean, you know, I've been blessed. I've met Sailor before. We had dinner at his house before. But meeting Michael Sailor and seeing Eric and them again is always a huge pleasure. But for me, the one standout moment for the evening was

was seeing the first person ever that I ever heard the word Bitcoin from coming up to me, giving me a hug and saying, you know, that we obviously, I tried to introduce myself to him. And he said, you know, we follow each other on Twitter and everything that you write. I just read it and it just makes complete sense to me. And that was the cherry on the top, made the whole event worth it. And that was Max Keiser.

Wow, that's awesome. Yeah. That's great. That's really cool. If you could orange pill anyone in the world, who would it be and why? It would have been Larry Fink, but that's already taken care of. I would actually say it's Elon Musk at this point. I would actually say it's Elon Musk. I do not think he's orange pilled, and I would like him to be.

Why do you think there's a gap there from the guy who started PayPal or that started PayPal, but, you know, merged his company with PayPal and has a background in currency rails, at least is interested in crypto? I don't know. What is the disconnect?

I don't know. And hopefully it's there and he's just not saying it for interest purposes or whatever else, private interests or whatever's going on. Hopefully it's there. But I don't get the feeling that he is orange pilled. And so I think that person, I think I would like him to be orange pilled. Do you have a bet on maybe forgetting Tesla, like Bezos, Zuck? I mean, who's going to be the first big company to...

buy Bitcoin and put it on their balance sheet? If it happens, I think it would be Zuck. I think it would be Zuckerberg, for sure. British, this has been incredible. I've enjoyed this conversation immensely. Likewise. I'll leave it to you to let people know where they can find your work and for any parting words. Listen, firstly, thank you so much for having me. And apologies, it's taken so long on my side to get this done. It's my mistake. But

you know, anyone wants to follow me, YouTube or Twitter or X rather, come and find me and just type my name in and something will pop up and you can come and subscribe and follow and whatever and give me some feedback on this chat. Listen, thank you so much for having me. It's been an awesome pleasure. Very proud of you with the work you're doing and the impact you're having. It's awesome to see you keep doing it.

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the Bitcoin Matrix. If you enjoyed the conversation, don't forget to like, subscribe and drop a comment below with any questions or thoughts you may have. We'd love to hear from you. You can support the show by checking out our sponsors and affiliate links in the description. It helps keep bringing you great content while connecting you with awesome products that I believe in. Share this episodes with your friends, family or anyone curious about Bitcoin.

And let's keep growing this community together. Stay curious, keep stacking, and I'll catch you in the next one.