Linux After Dark – Episode 82
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Hello, welcome to episode to eighty two of linux after dark. I am so I am Chris.

I am Carry and i'm doll.

Walk back, chaps. Chris, you recently were talking to a friend about their work situation and being forced to use software that they weren't that happy about.

Yeah, this is IT. One of my friends in his workplace, up until now has had unfetter. I map access to his working email, so he's been using thunder bird.

And suddenly he went to open IT. And IT said, this up is not allowed. You know how IT uses oth too, I think was something similar.

IT basically said, you've been dealt ori zed, visit this link and so you visit the link. And IT brought up the places works for. And IT said, you are not allowed to use this APP until you justify why you get to use IT. So there's like a free text box that said, please give your reasoning for why you should be allowed to use the bird.

Do you write? I care about afraid .

of he raised one thing a bit stronger than that, and he got a start into a conversation. Basically, I am very much ging the opinion, if that happens, and you fill in the books in good faith and they say, no, i'm not gonna tools or quit my job over IT. I'm just gonna do what they want me to do because I want the least friction possible.

Where is my friend was of the opinion? No, no, I am not doing this. They have to force me to stop using IT. And he got me thinking about pragmatism and whether you just go with the flow or you stand up for IT, because I just wanted quiet life. I want to be able to access the emails that let me do my job, in which ever way my workplaces decided I should, but maybe i'm a bit too soft, and maybe I should be raising a clenched fist and the and standing up for the ideals of free and open. So software.

I don't know. I think i'm probably in a similar camp to you, Chris, in this merchants. It's not my so I don't care, I guess not like my person of life is gig three, whatever pretty bil cant they asked me to use and at the end of the day, no matter what male cant they do or don't want me to use, I still get paid the end of the month. Hopefully unless I put something horrible in that box, then maybe no.

it's difficult isn't IT because the more you follow what is wanted to be done, in this case, they want my friend to use of a, three, six, five and that whole single pain of glass, because they pay our employee for a seat. And everything integrates in the same way IT has to be tems, because all the calendar entries are organized through that. And yeah, you swim against that tide.

You are using I, C. S. Files in calenda, trying to avoid that. For me, IT just makes life too difficult.

And then people are start questioning you, have you? Have you done this work? What work? Or did you not get IT? No because my thunderbirds broken or right. So you haven't done that then i'm not very heavy .

with cause you there certainly is an element of being able to blame someone else for your problems if you use is recommended tools yeah.

when office three sixty five goes down, then you just basically wash youtube day is not my problem, is nothing I can do to fix IT. Whereas if you are using your own solution, like thunder road or whatever is clamor, then you don't know, did I break something is at my end.

We continue down the same line. And obviously the thoughts you have is that your workplace will then turn around and a Mandate tighter managed controls. I'm lucky that I get to work on the linux s setup, which would be my preference.

But if my work turned round to me inside, no more linux s gets up. You have to use windows. I would not be happy about that, but I would probably, despite the bullet, and get on with IT and try, you know, i'd be setting up like a oi service to get first remote destroy.

I would get my linux somehow, but it's my job. And if the tools get Mandates, i'll be unhappy about IT. And if IT gets too bad, yeah, you might start looking elsewhere. But in the immediate, i'm not gonna go right. I'm just not working until you let me have my preferred stack.

There are some engineers for who that works though people who you know are really deep in the curl cota and ebel ded project, for example. I don't know how I would know that they definitely get the linux that they want even if IT isn't happy about IT. So it's certainly is a thing that can be done if you're important enough to the company.

but Chris, or just not important enough ultimately.

Well, I I don't know about that show. I think conversations like that might happen from time to time, and you're always able to present what difficulties that creates for you and for us. We administer linc systems as well.

So we're not just developing. There's certain workflows that become a lot more difficult and we just throw questions back. So say, okay, we we want to move this work flow in this direction. You say, okay, how do I do this and this silence and they go away.

But what about if they forced you to use the windows machine and you won't allow to have W S S L or remote desktop, they somehow managed to lock all that down, and you just literally using windows with windows terminal and door power shell? Here's an .

interesting thing, right? So another friend of mine in their job, they Mandated secure mobile devices and laptops. They paid a huge amount of money to a consult cy firm and they put IT so locked down.

The people were just using their own devices. They were taking pictures. They were sending IT on personal whats up and just IT completely backfire, I promise.

Like this is I felt too strict. Ed, i'm just going to completely, just not use anything they asked me to do. So as you ask me that that's what I feel like I would do. I would have a secret second laptop on the side and probably put myself in a vulnerable position in terms of employment. And I hope that they don't find out that i'm just not doing IT the way that .

they want me to. Yes, our billions against IT ten to start silently.

Well, this is the thing, right? By enforcing two stricter controls, you end up creating these shadow I T things where someone has gone to set up a web server on the site or is using their own laptop. But equally kind of do understand why some of these restrictions are in place. In some cases, I don't know. Maybe i'm just a bit too seasoned from having hedge users turn up with their macbook and said, this is the machine i'm using and then having had to block IT from the network and thanks to the past.

you're just a corporate shale. Gary, that's your problem.

Yeah.

that's definitely me. I mean, I was certainly in between. You know, someone showed up and said, hey, this is the tool that I really, really would like to do my job and like the team all wants to start this and say, okay, we'll give IT a try unless he was you in a very obvious security breach waiting to happen. Especially if people were nice about IT, then he was a little easier to bend the rules. But I was in much smaller shops, and I think that either of you were.

yeah, I think that IT depends on how the person asks on what their justification is, right? If someone just turns up with there, bring your own device thing and just started using IT, that's one thing. But if someone turns up and says, look, I would be way more productive here if you gave me a windows box or a mac or a linux box or whatever IT is. And they can provide justifications to why, like I think, in your case, crisis, pretty obvious that your team ministering large scale linux boxes are going to be more productive using linux on the way station. Then I think if we could find a way to manage and control these machines to keep those people productive, then that would be fine.

But the last time I had a proper job, they tried to force anti virus on us. I don't like I use linux. I'm not installing some weird proprio anti virus like no.

And IT got kind of closer and closer to the point where it's gna have to do. And I kept kind of fob in the math. And then thankfully, they find me so that fix that problem .

completely. Unrelated reason.

i'm sure I was actually.

in the end, I have had a friend who was Mandated to a take an exam on a windows machine. IT went so far that they just feel like i'm not doing this because they had to use windows. But also they have installed a piece of software that had full access and then locked everything down for the duration of the exam and then give the remote exam porter a full guided tour of their house on the webcam so that they weren't cheating.

And also they had to sit in a prescribe room that only had one door. There was always on camera, although as they were worried, someone would come in with notes in a second door or something. And then is this because it's not just the Operating system, it's the whole like you you're vetting my house.

Yeah, i've had that before where the exam process have been like how day you have power connected to your monitor, show me me that you disconnected the I C. Lead from your IT fears a bit much to be.

I supposed to do the exam monitor, but you have to .

use a laptop like they will not let you use a detox machine. Oh, so you don't never lamped up and it's not running windows, then no exam for you.

I guess you know, it's interesting you talking about people arriving with the something that might be insecure. I I distinctly remember a few years ago when I start my current role, I was still running a monty market and I had the flat pack issue where the title bar of every flatpack iran had as super user in IT. So I look like all my desk applications I was running as route, which would be like the ultimate new thing i'd logged into.

My death obsession has read, and IT turned out it's to do with the proceed I D and name spaces and fire jail flat pack. So the despot environment, some of them, especially Martin marco, were reporting that was running in roots name space, which was not true at all, is complete miss reporting. But the flat pack developers in the marti desk developer has got into a bit of a two and four, but whose fault was certain? Get fix for ages.

I switched to excess, I don't know. But yeah, that was a bit awwad because I I wasn't anything wrong. but. Brand you in the job and I look like I was running everything's .

did you have to the screen share anything and those applications?

I was sending screen shots and yeah, few eyebrows get raised and you're running telegram's root. no.

Christian new, be your fight.

That's like when I first got into mounting windows and I got this tiny X P, I saw and all there was was the administrator account. And so what I went in, I saying stuff that we just show me as administrator and people like you can't be, I like what what does that mean? That was also going to have a cable modem plugged in via USB. So I don't think I even had any sort of net or anything days of the days IT is a wonder my computer didn't literally explode OK.

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I asked the host for off topic questions from you. You can even get some episode bit early. We've got a lot going on, and it's only possible because of the people who support us.

So if you like what we do and can afford IT, IT would be great if you could support us to, at linux after dark, doctor slash support. Alright, what about the elephant in the room here? And that is the two of you .

don't even use learnings .

on the desktop.

I think the gary, you've got more than excuse because at least you using a really sweet mac, where's using windows?

My question about this is we mean, joe, know this filthy secret that we harbor every recording, but do you have a choice for what you use and you're making this choice? I think that's the case, right? You could run the linux test up and you choose not to. Is that fair?

Yes, I could use linux that top. And for your information on laptops and tablets and a lot of things, I do use linux, just not the one that we're using to record right now because surface doesn't like linux even with the kern nel. Oh, well.

and that's one without a fan. And that's why use IT for this.

exactly. That's fair.

What about surface linux that we talked about night .

linux recently? I've tried installing IT. The performance is just really weirdly bad under binti. And that kind of unacceptable for her recordings. I have no idea how windows performance .

Better on this device that just does, you know, the surface. Linux folks have done a great job, but how can we compete with the behavior flight microsoft?

Pretty easily because they tend to be kind of lacking in the people talking to each other department.

Well, I couldn't use that the next day top, if I wanted to because I have a bunch of proprietary applications which do not work on the linux test up. And as far as I know, there are no viable alternatives on the linux test stop for these applications.

Is this for in a work context?

So I have two max, I have the work mac and I have the personal mac, both of which end up with applications on that. I just cannot run on the linux test up. Or there are no viable alternatives to under don't tests up that.

I'm willing to use a question for both of you. I guess, do you feel frustrated that you can't use the insect up and you'd prefer to be there and these are blockers. Are you actually sort of happy. He says with surprise.

are you happy a bad person?

yeah.

I felt frustrated for a long time that I couldn't use the links set up. And I think in the last year to i've come to a point of acceptance that in order to do the things I do, both professionally and personally, I have to use a mac. There is software that just will never exist on linux for stuff I D personally, for example, there are a lot of creative applications that there are no alternatives to linux.

So i'm thinking radio school stuff like the elephant heath GLD editor or banger X I control or Prices enter and various applications like this that I use multiple times a week every week that I just cannot get on a linux box. And sure, I could Carry linux box with me and do my day to day competing on that. But equally, I then have to Carry two laptops. And actually, the apps that I want to use on linux, like escape or open shot, are available on the mic. And I just do that.

Yeah, that helps that the mac hardware is really, really nice. And you've got the nm three five english macbook care, which I saw recently. Yeah.

that's the one i've got. And IT is a really nice laptop. And for example, the weekend of our camp, I did not plug the laptop in from friday night to sunday, boring.

And I was presenting and recording panel talks and running sound sorts of stuff, the dream. And that was incredibly dice. But the flip side is that I am probably less productive on the mac. Then I would be on, say, my thinkpad is just the there are these things that I need to do that I can only do on the mac, say, yeah, I am that person at the linux conference who is standing at the front during the welcome talk from google slides automatic book. I'm sorry.

But you represent the reality of a typical linux using. I said this so many times before you, gary, use linux quite a lot on all of the stuff running in your home lab, some stuff at work that's not abstract away. You are a typical linux user because you don't use IT on the desktop. IT is pretty abNormal as a linux that is on the best top as well as i'm concerned. Not if you listen to shows like this, but if you are a Normal person out there just getting on with life, you are definitely not out of the ordinary.

Well, running on the network i'm connected to right now, there are at least seven, eight, eight linux boxes doing various bidon pieces. And yeah at work there are certain tasks, S I S S into a desk machines somewhere that is running reta.

I think nothing illustrates that point to more than when mean, my work at dinner with some people, we met in the area, and IT was a translator who was married to a developer. So we SAT down. But again, we were talking, and the developer said, what are you decrease for living? And I explained, then his wife, who is the translator, said, oh, this linux thing sounds really cool.

Maybe I should run IT. And he turned to her. Tapper on the army said, no, no, no, you don't want to do that. It's a waste time to match my wife said, oh, I run IT.

I've running if, like, is then we had a conversation, you know but you've got Chris there the whole time and and he absolutely uses linux all day long, but he's doing VS code dev containers. W, S, L is running either windows or max. He's not running that in exceps up to do that, as you say. So he's definitely a lyn ux user.

And to be clear, I don't advocate anyone use their computer in the way that I D where most of the stuff I D is really my computer.

It's funny that my wife uses linux s on, heard that top, and that's all she's got on. There was a bn two, obviously. And one time he says to me, my laptops not working, like, let me ever look at IT bt IT up.

And I just put IT to like A T T Y my what star ex not found what's going on. But IT turns out that the alias that I use up equals like solar up cat update and blab a blah, including auto removed. Somehow had auto removed, the xc a has stopped completely. So needless to say, I took that out of her script and IT was just as easier in. So as a one to test, oka took about five minutes.

I'm certainly the existence administrative for my parents as well. I think that linux on the detox is really, really good as long as you have a system administrator or are the system of administrator willing to learn that kind of thing. So that absolutely works.

I think at this point, what i'd like to say as well though is i'm going to get my oil can out of my ticket and oil this creepy gate the obviously people are going to try erect and the smash IT autobath because I hate when this conversation comes up and you'll get keeping bb. It's really important to say that both approaches are very, very valid. It's absolutely feasible to relics on the desk, and nobody here is criticizing people that do.

It's equally viable to say it's absolutely viable to run windows or macos and then run linux tools. Computers are just tools. And that comes back to where we started this conversation for me, whether i'm using outlook of a three, six five because my workmen data or thunder bird, a computer is a tool to let me get things done and i'm going to choose the part of blaze resistance to get there.

And I don't think it's bad either way. And it's really what is what you need to do to get that done. And the main thing is that you don't get hung up on that yeah .

and the main thing is that you don't criticize other people for their choices is up to you if you two don't want na run linux on the best top for your various reasons, then you're missing out and i'll tell you that. But it's not optimates tell you you doing IT wrong yeah.

And equally, we can sit here and say, right, what does IT find IT? We ve pat enough. We don't anna, hear your opinions anymore. You don't know what you're .

talking about clearly.

right later, losers. And right, right. Because I think it's a flip of that. You mean joe run linux s on the deck, but if you come to the four of us and say, right, we need an expert opinion. I'm going to a point, my finger at youtube first. Yeah so IT has no bearing on experience, knowledge, ability, any of that stuff if it's not a value judgment is just a difference of opinion and preference.

right? Well, well, bit to get out of here then do let us know what you think about all of this. Show a linux after doctor t.

IT will be back in two weeks. But until then, i've been done. I've been Chris. I've been gary.