#410 Entering the Django core
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Hello and welcome two python bites where we deliver python as the headlines directly to your airboat. This is upset. Four hundred and ten recorded monday, november eighth, at seven thirty seven A M, again.

Ual, time for our living. We are. I am microlending .

dy and I am brand.

On this episode brought to by us are courses, the pocket, all those things brings book, check them out, links in the pocket, show notes there you can find right in your player. And we have A A standard introduction. Brain of a were follows on, master on. But you know what is this not new view? You created us a python bites blue sky account.

How about that blue y so you .

can still follow us on methods or still very active there. But if you're one of the many people that never really made you way to meet on, but decided to make your way to blue sky, well, then make your way over to bull, the piton bites that be sky. That social account where that is a jumping off point to stay in touch with all of us still follow the podcast there.

You follow bryan, he's linked in the profile there. You follow me over there as well and you follow us on mastered on and blue sky and enjoy blue sky, right? And what you think about.

I think it's I think the default. I like IT also. I like that the default experience is pretty good. I massed IT on.

I I love massed IT on, but I had to get to amusing the mona diet on my iphone and IT works IT. It's a really comfortable thing. But IT took me while to get there because the there really I don't if there is a default mecon.

it's not great. Yeah, there is a decal one. But I I tried IT for while .

I switch them as well.

yes. yeah. Unch people want to move over there. Part of that community, there is a ton of the motor faces. Many the people we talk about on the show are pretty active over there.

So but he doesn't know one thing, doesn't have add that feature when you post. If you're done that later.

just prepare people, prepare to receive a lot of types from me, like type out on my phone, really looking into that said and maybe .

on me and but I think it's bad form to call people out on types on social media platforms. You know that's just good indeed indeed .

and you but on but of introduction check out the live show. We don't know when IT is like to say.

Normally what member.

what there's what we Normally says, monday, ten emps every time. But then is what we Normally do, which recently has been seven, thirty.

Yeah, blame. But I always fine.

just fine, figure out of time. But you can always find the next episode pretty much right as one ship so will take you the youtube but that finally the netter handcrafted artisan from brian. I know my sort of the pit news letter and .

was that what do you ah let's talk about 这 一个 well for a bit so carton carton gibson who was the jane fellow and is I has to think IT I believe .

step down he is a gender chatter janel .

chat ah janko chat awesome ah another broadcast um but so his he has thoughts on janowo and it's kind of a long article but it's well written。 I need that it's talking about jangle core versus jangle plugins and the longevity of geno and everything and the whether or not batteries included and things like that and how to sustain IT.

So one of the things that um I guess I kind of forget that jingle will be twenty years old is next earth is twenty years ago for twenty years. Um that's pretty long time. So must be nineteen now. And um it's that's a long time. And so one of the sustainable abilities, sustainable parties that there's such stuff there, there's like this idea of the it's the web framework for perfections with deadlines and it's also the batteries included framework but not too many batteries. Um so there's a small core.

Um and then also talking about like we've move, a lot of people understand that the power of jane isn't really just the core is that you can get something up quickly with core, but it's the all the plugins are available because the ecosystem is is a plugged in architecture um and the so what is this talking about? A lot of people don't realize that there's just a few people working. I mean, it's not a huge team for how many people are using jane, there's one in half um trying to find IT I like this um anyway we get to that. There's one and a half .

way we can go right this is this. This is .

great picture in .

the brain reference. amazing.

Yeah, picking the brain. I love them. okay. So g brain, what are we gonna tonight? Same thing we do every night. Pinky, try to get our package into jane. Um, this is ilaria.

Uh, so the idea is difficult to get features into jane court but maybe you don't want to a the um uh somebody can't member the attribution is listed in here but somebody mentioned that cars where h plugins go to die um and which is a little harsh but that people understand stand that if you get your beach in core IT doesn't change very frequently. Then if they they they do um they do a deprecation released like every two years. So if if you want to deprecate a feature, it's two years.

If you want to add something new, it's a slow process. There's a lot testing involved. It's gonna way easier to get a new feature if it's in if it's a plugging also um and if we look back, I mean thinking in the future like we might.

One example here was um i'm not going to try to find IT, but one example was X, H, T, M, L or x. Yeah, that's right. Exit menu super awesome.

Every a lot of people using IT should that be part of supported natively in core? Well, we look back a few years IT would have been like react or something should should natives could support react? Glad this chose no um now um X H mail might be the next now in a few years we never know.

Um also um yeah there's a lot of examples around that. Uh jane, rest framework I kind of forget that that's not a core thing. That's a it's just one of the really popular plugging. But there's like jingo ninja that is um that is awesome also and maybe IT wouldn't exist if if jingles framework was part of the core. So the ecosystem is great.

But there is there is attention there that I I like the discussion of is the geno and even that jane website doesn't like the team doesn't like to um to like pick the the the plugins that everybody should use or the winner plugins because that's kind of like bringing in a decor that that kind of reduces the uh competition in the ecosystem. But at the same time, it's hard as a beginner to jump in and say, okay, so what not really what plugins should I be using um and there isn't a shot for everybody, of course but I think there I guess this i'll enjoy this discussion is around how how should we support the ecosystem while not squaring the ecosystem. So anyway, um I I I saw coral ers between this and pie test as well, because pie test is the same sort of an issue that is there's a there's a core and there's things in the core that I wish weren't there um and there's things that are out of the core that I think maybe should be in. And so everything is going to have those opinions and dealing with them, whether or not you uh, sanction a plug in or not. It's, it's, it's a troubling thing for our every, every system.

So anyway, it's it's a tough tension. So any out the audience for you, penny says, great to see jane now got task. You feature added, no need for salary anymore.

Here is right. It's also some to be able to just say, no, we can run stuff fly. We don't need mega infrastructure like maybe just something I think I have thread, you know. Yeah the other hand, it's it's weight that's permanently on jing or hing .

yeah yeah and another a little comic that was in there is this is this comic of how you think is open source apps are maintained and there's a picture of like tons of people hanging out, drawing on White boards and talking and stuff. And the reality is one dude basement saying just one more ticket before I go to bed. Yeah, I absolutely.

Let's go to the future OK where we're going on. We don't need roads. We going to go to the future pool.

This one comes to us from pt decor. Thank you, pat. So this in, and this is an interesting in idea about library that allows you to do multiprocessing type of work. But with A C I O, one of the chAllenges with A C I O is you can overwhelm the system and IT does not is what's determined. I think you would say he doesn't feel back pressure.

So let me give you example if you're doing in regular programme and where you call a function in a blocks like i've calling a writing database query and IT stays there until the response till the database ase gets back here right over the database is busy, that slows down the part of the code that's calling the databases, right? The code that's calling the part of the code that's calling database in the kind of backs up the entire system slows IT down. But with the A, C, I, O, you're just sort of throwing more work at IT and then Carrying on so you can go make even more work for IT, right?

So one of the chAllenges of a think I O is you can just overwhelm the system if you know, hey, we really can only take ten concurrent requests. But if you get over that, it's going to be a problem is chAllenging to set that limit again. So that kind of what the speech pool thing does, it's it's cool.

It's a small use case because the way they use IT, but still it's called so in multiple processing, this is the traditional I create dub processes because python has a thing of the girl. L, and we can't really do computational parallels. M, so we're going to do IT this way.

So what you can do is say, hey, maybe we only have two course, or I only want to consume the course, or whatever you say with pool of two workers, could no more than two processes just of, like start processing as many requests you have but only take him to at a time is one gets done, get the next and just keep going and till you're out right to that. This idea of future pool is but for A C, I, O, so you can say a with future pool of. Many you want, and then you can await the pool map, some function over some block of work, some bom.

But interesting, right? This way you will stop. The collar can't go on anymore than A S sort limited.

So why do I say this is pretty limited? And why? Why would I be Better? How could I be Better? So this, it's local little thing that you create in one function once.

And IT IT does the work also, you can say, run this task a synonyms. Ly, you have to use this that produce pattern on IT. Yeah which is not a Normal programing thing, is not like i'm calling this functional waiting that, or calling that functions waiting that.

What would be awesome is if some way you could go and say for this program or or this thread or maybe not ideal, but maybe even for this event loop, I don't care how work gets to IT little limited to five at a time. So if a web request kick something off awesome IT IT goes into, that thing is limited by five concurrent requests. If I say await something I call, it's also participating in this this pooling throttle limiting type thing. But I think I was, far as I know, doesn't have that concept. So and maybe this could both be useful for some folks on and motivation for someone to create something really interesting that .

is a little more probably dangerous to ark on the fly. But um yes.

IT isn't there like .

something that you've used before? That is asic sometimes that .

yeah I used n sink U N S Y N C, which is pretty interesting. And that would be that would certainly be possible to do that because what that does is that converts or processes all the ash requests everywhere into a single loop on a single .

background thread. So yeah, possibly that I was just think more model of you'd you d want to give work to this this system exactly, and have IT been asian intellect can be and then have a .

Better so I yeah, yes, that would be great. The problem is that I think IT really needs something a little bit lower level than people who can build packages for, yeah, cutting needs to be part of part of python itself. There is U V loop part of the corner.

Yeah, part of the way here we go again to IT needs to be something that is the loop itself, almost as work is attitude, right? But you know, U V loop can replace the regular, I think I A loop, which is generally good idea. impossible. But to maybe maybe it's it's that level that you've got to work at. Maybe we could look, look in that realm and see what we could do because they would be really cool as, say, he is sink and handle all all the concurrently you want to throw out that but it's only gonna pass IT on or you executed more, attended the time or something like that yeah anyway oh, people can go to the future with future pool and check that out and and maybe teacher ful for your .

project yeah it's funny. Said the U V loop. And like, U V has loops. Oh no. U V loop is a thing way before U V.

U V loop. Was that right? You really have spent around. I know how long it's been around, but at least three years, at least eight years oh sorry, yeah at least eight years so that's longer .

than U V yeah .

and OK yeah .

you um I want to go to article called from american well down return name tubes in new apps um is a simple sort of thing but it's it's a good thing to to remind people so um first off I went to thank bread for using the terminate A P I in a sense of the A P I for a method or for a function or for class for module and necessarily in A P I for rest A P X. We're not taking my rest A P I as a web P S talking about good all function, uh, A P S anyway.

Um so the idea is named tubes are kind of awesome and they are fun because you can just in one line say, hey, i've got like say a point and it's IT is cool and why would I return that when I turn the name to is because something like that like a point so that it's obvious that people can access X, Y, Z or whatever um and in in some things like point, it's easy to do you know or get my position you know it's an X Y ordinate um so exam are probably there however so why why would you not want to use this um and he's arguing that and I kind of agree is that um it's really easy to implement something with the name triple um but now you got to support both um index based index access like a tool or named access as if I was a dictionary. So having both index access and a name access is probably how will you meet um and I think i've seen this a lot of people uh assume wants it's a name tool. People can use the name, but it's also a tool.

So you can use IT, you can slice IT. I'll do all sorts of stuff. So um the and it's really just to get around a like to not have to do a class, but classes are easier now. So um there are some alternatives to alternatives to name table.

You can uh return a data class and that would i'll be something I uh grab uh possibly data class or a dictionary dictionary would work fine or typed deg the um one of the things that is nice about the types dick is dick, is that you get editor support as well because you have got the types to find in there um and then something new to me, which I mean I have to play with is a simple name space um which gives us the ability to to access the names. But um it's not indexed ble. I haven't played with the name space, simple name space. So have to do that.

I hadn't heard a simple name space either and I haven't really use type dict.

They both are good options. I have an either I like kind of jumped on the data class bandwagon and use da classes a lot now because I do think about that is actually I I need to think about IT more, but I I haven't really been using named tubes to return stuff um but so is the recommendation really is just be careful um and uh uh read this quote he said my key point in all of this is to prefer redbook and ergonomics over gravity in your code that means avoiding name tubes except when you're expanding or tweaking in an existing heavy A P I where the named top improves over the plane tube that is already being used.

So if you are in that, I guess that that's something I I think I have done if you if you are, the return value was a tubal before IT has been a couple for a long time. There's existing code using IT, but I really should have been a named to something um adding adding named to people allows people to use both um and that might be ergonomically Better. The um but um the caveat really is you've got a lot of testing to do because you've got ta test both accesses now.

so test more. So okay, yeah it's a good all brand. No surprise there. No idea.

Okay, let's talk about a different programme language, but I think this is interesting, an interesting perspective OK. So the zig programing language you familiar with? zig? No, I it's kind of new to me as well.

If you go and look at some examples here, IT looks I think IT looks a little like breast like not sure, but we on IT does a lot of simple things like IT interOperate really quickly, easily with a either sea or or windows A P I as a stuff like that, but looks looks pretty approved. But it's a low, low level programme language. What are what .

are all those semi Collins and clearly braces doing.

might delete and might not be really needed. So here's the inner singing. They recently were spending quite a bit of money on A W S. And they've decided that they would be Better off not spending their supporters money on hostem.

So for example, they said the rust foundation reports that IT spent four hundred four thousand dollars on infrastructure websites and stuff like that, probably mostly packages and says we don't really know anything about P, P, I and python like what is pithum, but would cost run and mostly because that's a lot of infrastructure costs are donated. He said, look at this thing, which is growing. We don't really want for that to be our issue. They were getting up boards of a thousand dollars a month for their A W S bit is not sane.

But what .

org is there? A cope one of python out? org. G, so this is not an essential service, is not an emergency.

If IT goes down and ninety nine percent up time is perfectly fine. It's the last one percent of up time that represents ninety nine percent of the cost, which is pretty interesting. So they said, look, we got a thirty six dollar, has no server, which comes to twenty terribles.

I think twenty at least twenty terribles have band with, which is about two thousand dollars of with included for thirty six dollars and maybe someday will go crazy, spend hundred, two hundred box. But we don't need to do more than that like this. This is the right.

And so what are they doing? Instead they're saying, one, they are encouraging and setting up a system that has package mirrors, right? We remember we talked about that pet that would basic sign wheels and then allow them to be hosted somewhere else long as a signature matches.

So they're doing that kind of stuff from the start. They are like we can spread this out in a distributed style. So no single thing is taken a huge hit.

And if IT feels one place the equivalent of pip, because they will, let's try a miro or something like that, you know and yeah, maybe I say they are like, well, thirty six box month and on top that what were they doing before? A S, is what they're doing before, if so, on A W S, if they want them to push out a new website. Deployment took five minutes. Push out deployed through all the the stuff just to get IT up and on their little headmaster, IT takes year, takes few seconds. It's so crazy.

it's up the job. Yeah yeah .

basically to cost start something check every second. There's anyway, I think this is a new package, a big conversation cloud. No cloud is a big conversation costs.

And like the black swan of, well, what if the people back in paths, especially pipi that infrastructure, what if they decided to stop? Like how do you get one hundred thousand dollars a month all the sudden? No, that's a big deal, I think people would figured out, but there would be big disruption.

And I like, okay, what are we going to set up? And this pet with self hosted wheel like done bit of a deposit down on that. But anyway, this is interesting from a growing but yet super popular .

language so interesting cool. I'm indeed and all curly braces and stuff were because it's mentioned by corky that it's also interactive sea. So that's interesting.

Yeah yeah, this is more likely. Yes, I suppose so it's it's languor right? Well, that's IT for main topics extras.

I have one extra that's going on I want to let people know about. So the testing could python test? I i've got courses and um and that's you're going well.

And by people getting value, they also community and the community have a community. But IT IT used to be on slack, but it's one of those growth things. Slack was IT was free and lack and now it's not. Um and so we switched to podium based forum and IT is not fun. So and um um I mean great that polio offers a forum since the courses are on point, but the i'm mean to say after several months of being on podium and only like five comments on there, it's not just not cut .

net can .

enjoy now so we're going to we're going to try discord and um and so just I guess, hang in there everyone. I'm trying to trying to get IT associated so that everybody has that has community access. We will get access to the discourse server. And um i'm probably I don't know ah what we're going to do. I wanted to be sustainable so I can't just be completely free um but I also wanted to end but I wanted to be something that's easy forever ready get into so I guess just stay tuned um i'll get that else I doubt is as weekend so anyway, any extras for you?

Yeah, I got a few. It's is tRicky, right? You want to pick something where people already are if they've got some apples slack or discard or something open, there's a lot of cool options that you could pick, even some needs.

So self the ones. But if it's a completely different APP t that people after remembred to open and it's just another tab, actually the thing the audience, I think it's IT changes. So for the like, go i'm over in this thing and now I just go the next tab open to see what's happened .

in this community yeah so I even like when I mentioned IT to my so my daughters and health care, she's not even like my oldest daughter and and and I mentioned IT to her and she's like, oh, I can to help you with that. I'm on disco the time like, okay, great.

So that's are some my thing. I got some mexicans, one still live in the then then around your life star. Well, it's it's pretty good. So I keep going with that.

That's but that's actually the first action is I was on the work item podcast talking with them over therefore an hour about python and business and stuff and check that out if they want. That's fun meat. Yes, I feeling.

Let me know if I talk about this before, brian, I searched and searched and couldn't find IT. But in my mind, we talk about did did I talk about the fact that you can subscribe as in R, S, S, to get? I don't know.

I don't think so because I didn't find that in my mind, I did. But anyway, if you go to any release and you just type dot adam on the end, what you get is a public down the window set IT IT gives you an R S S. feed.

So go to your project, you like click on the releases and put dot adam on the end and you put that new R S V reader. So that'll pop up if you like. Hey, there's no released of the thing that i'm interested that's prety cool. And then let me make sure I revision right.

This is Jamie thomson said this said there's a new release of pi test B D D behavior driven design and not just a new release, but eight point out, which is a big release, right? And IT, probably the most interesting thing is the daily tables. So you seen these daily tables, not me.

It's kind of like a premature query, but it's also kind of like a markdown table given the following users exist and the news have pipe header, pipe name, pipe pipe twitter and then values just as pretty. Ah no right. So anyway, if people like their B, D, D, they can check out I just B, D, D.

That's very good. Also, last week, I really route all the code. I I did a little terminal C L I magic, and there are little over ten thousand lines of python code that don't involve blink space.

So mean, involve lines for a top python and python by a little bit less, but not tremendous. Ly less wrote that in court, which is a singer as flask, which was pretty awesome. So seeing is is running a little more efficiently, a little bit faster, a little bit Better than I was before, and completely rewriting ten thousand lines of code in two days.

Quite a, quite an undertaking. You're tired at the end that let me tell me what is awesome. I came out really, really well. I did IT in two residents, actually. One rewrite to just convert IT from permanent to flask. And then a second rewrite, convert IT from sink to a sink for almost every input in all the code below IT all that's all .

the database queries and stuff like that. So did IT effect like everything?

Or did what were the main arts the certain parts that IT does not effect, but anything with database access required? And then there's there's in web frameworks when you're writing web up are always dealing with little aspects of that frameworks API. So I need to get the the U R, L of the current request to see if I should do a redirect or not.

Well, the way you get the U R L completely different in pure mid versus flasks. So anything that kind touched heart cooks you are else you if you want enough that somebody who's log in and that you know that's also a cookie, right? There's it's surprisingly knock on effects and flash courts a little bit bunky in some ways where there's this the red local request that you just access out of the air, which is cool and must for some reason the call started here is up over there.

Maybe there was a threat or some kind of delay where that's become disconnected that don't complain to you that IT doesn't know what the request is even though you have a object like there's a lot of weird changes. So yeah, but anyway, I was really fun. I'm doing to write up on that, but I started throw that out there and that's going well and that did.

Shall we? Shall we tell a joke? A joke. Be on derful this one.

We've done short form jokes, and we've done long form jokes, right? This might be the best long form joke. So you, I have to stick with me for just a second here. But check this out.

Here's the the breaking, headline breaking java script developer commits to a framework for a record breaking three weeks records that comes with a picture of a cloud learning jobs group developers into some shady spot. But let me read, the president is okay. See me valley, california in an an unprecedented display of consistency that has left the tech world reeling, logo developer alex chen, twenty eight, has reportedly stuck with the same javascript in work astonia three weeks.

Chen, known in the local death circles as the brainwork quest bar, or his abilities to adopt and discard J, J, S, frameworks at brake mic speed, has has been using spilt without interceptions in August first shatter ing, his previous record of four days set with U. J, S. Back in.

I don't know what came over me, chen said, visibly shaken by his own stability. I woke up one morning. I just feel like switching in the angular or reactor that a new framework that was released in the interview.

The news has since shockwaves through the java script community framework. Craters are reportedly in crisis mode, with one A, A source from a major tech company stating, if developer stop starched sticking with one framework, how will we justify our jobs? Chins colleagues have expressed a mix of all and concern, senior developer lisa patel noted, i'm worried about alex. Yesterday, I caught him reading the documentation instead of immediately rewriting our entire code base in a new it's not like him at all.

The unprecedented event has not been without its chAllenges, ten, eight minute to suffering from withdraw symptoms, including uncontrollable urges to create new iiu packages and persistent itching trigger by the side, trigger by the side of stay well well being tankred, despite the difficult ene, remains committed to sea in this through taking on one day at a time, he said, fingers twitching as he resists the first this hype, P. X, create next APP. But i've heard whisper I have a solutions.

Ary new framework is only been download of fifty times. Maybe i'll check IT out, you know, just to stay informed. Good right? That money.

Um yeah, got you. I appreciate .

the sibling preciate, the stability jingo of python. A lot of things that we got no, I mean, is a joke. But it's also true that there's a lot of lot of turn on that space.

Yeah I mean, like how many people here like should I stick .

with python or should I go to A G yeah I mean.

zig has a lot less. I mean, I don't think tracor what I think dig but just kind of so yeah true.

Well, and if you want to make sure you're alhambra to the very end right by the comment section.

G yeah so people just like change framework by the alphabet .

and ah and nothing have to change or here nice. Well, always, always lovely. Have you here. thanks. Thank you here by.