Ep 20: A Conversation With Jody Galyean
01:45:12 Share

What, jody, welcome to the podcast on cut real role. It's great to have you here.

yes. So it's to be here.

Thank you very much. Well, for you, ours and this we've got the legendary jog and you I wanted to talk to you for a long time, really wanted to pick your brain met. So before we SAT on and and turn the podcast on, you grew up around the theory. I grew up right here.

I didn't realize this building was here, but a little three room school house. Just read up the road. Three, six.

So what? We in hawa wali, no. And then after six grade, they transferred us to grab IT. And we went to grab IT to consolidate its bill down.

There is death that my dad, there is a little store appear on the corner where my family helped run IT. My dad got groceries, one winner and stuff through there and everything. So yeah.

this is my hometown.

My dad lives just five minutes. How he's just that. He's going pretty good. He's still still good, still gives .

us orders granddads not four. And he's doing good too. I always good to watch .

t the cutters, the boys and everything is done. This you should done that. He still pretty well get to right to. He knows what we should have done. No.

he's pretty sharp, joe. People northwest, no road and walk around betting. Bill Rogers for people don't know smaller town betton .

bill Rogers head, that's right. Yes or okay.

Will jodie, I want to check with you because you're very fascinating to me in the fact that you've dominated two industries coming from the the world and dominating, coming to the cutting world and what you ve won, what you your sons of one. And i'm always very intrigued and admire people that go from one industry to the other and why they did IT. What makes you know change is important. You are the change with times or you don't change. That's very you to make you you be carbon and be left behind or you can change and go with the flow.

And wad arted show an halter horse is pleasure, horse is rain and everything. And so that's what I grew up with, dad. So we did everything. So that's how we had to go about doing all that and stuff. In one thing, he always pressed, if you don't change.

you only lift the yeah you know there there's a pretty cool quote that I read from carrow years ago, and I thought that was really accurate. SHE said that about the breeding game, he said, you might like purple horses. You know, just the man, yeah, you might like purple horses.

But if the public on our choices, you Better start break. Now in choice, that's good. You might, I think your purple horses are Better. You might not like the feed on our choices. You might not like a lot of things about them, but if you want to keep breathing purple horses, you going to .

have a push. Your people still demands that.

right? Whether you not, if you want to stay in business and make money, you Better given what they want to do exactly. Well, this back up a little bit, jodie. So first of all, how how do you .

make thirty eight?

Sixty eight? You look right now of fifty.

oh, really .

eighty .

three.

Love you. Lie up. Have the product. I love you.

So you grow up in this area. You come from a horse background. Tell me a little bit about your childhood.

Father had horses. Dad was trainer. He started training. And and you like to see that he trained everything they had. The holder horse around this right here. He still at the same place he's always be in two down the road about three miles.

So you are pretty much rise .

in show that was .

raised in the house back in those in those days when you were a kid, he was shown in what everything you had.

holder horses, close your horses, rain in horses. And then to the last class of the night at all, the A, K, J shows will be the cat. And so we'd have to be their first thing of the morning state of the very. And so I got the opportunity ity through him to see everything and experience each vision of the worst world.

It's kind of sad that that's like a lost form. Now isn't IT. Everything is got so specialized. And I understand with specialization, obviously, the quality of each event is going to skyrocket. But IT also makes me a little bit sad that the true all around horseman like yourself and Tommy manion and dog cop, a lot of a lot of older gentlemen that did at all, yes, that's been a lost trait.

IT has been lost little bit and everything is specialized. It's because that's where the money is. And so you don't see many people that come crew, that background is done that many to me.

The negative of that is I think you'll ast lose some horsemanship true horsemanship skill.

yeah. Well, I think you lose doing everything. I think learning that's what's good about american and different things like that.

IT brings the rain ers and the cutters and the color brings everybody together. And they share ideas. yes. And the more you share ideas from each different vision.

the Better IT is. yes. Yes, that's awesome. So basically grew up in a horse show family did, did back in those days when you were a kid, did I have .

indoor arenas around here? everything. So in the winter time.

we just road out on the that top of stop.

Yeah, we did. In dad's play, he found, build an indoor later on. But yeah, we steal.

There was a bigger rampin. IT was dusty. And yeah, I just what we were.

what what you had to do? yes. Yeah, no. Tell me, where did you dad get these horses that he trained from the public key bread? M, you know, how did he get his stock back?

The and IT was from the public. There were some local gas and actually started on sunday afternoons that they have a little git together at the house. Some of the friends that come over that have a few cows, and they ve done and have a little cut in the one that been like in fifty nine, fifty eight, fifty nine, you might have a little play day and then someone say, oh, hey, he's going pretty good job doing that horse list in a horse and that sort of hat started and then he started doing going go on some of the shows and .

and was back in those days. Was there a big quarter horse market in north and o okhotsk .

industry like right in little play day? A Q H A shows, A Q H A was a big thing at that point time. And then, oh, you had a bent viles county fair would have a little showed in the county fair and things like that. But no, you'd have to go in to missouri. And uh, I can remember we'd have drive away to send luis, and we show all weekend up there and then have to have home sunday nights and get home in time for me to go school on money morning stuff.

So IT took a while. So basically you credit your dad for teaching your most of you your horses' ship .

skills in the early year. Yes, sir, with other dad and the basic, he had a really good friend of his, that was his ferrier named Arthur kilgore. And Arthur was an R, C.

A. ropes. And so arter would tell that ideas, and they would share. And he helped that an awful a lot, too.

And so just through them, we developed the basic, no basic skills of how do you shoot a horse? How do you treat a horse? How do you get a horse to do certain things.

You know, that sounds stupid, but one of the greatest lessons I got as a Young horseman is my, one of my mental is gold mckinley. I was fifteen years old. He taught me how to shoe horses.

Yeah, never forget this. I'm showing this horse, and it's my back home and child work. And yeah, I kind of grumble LED out and I said, why are you teaching me how to shoe horses? I don't want to be a ferry.

I don't want to show horses. I want to train horses. I never get what he said. He looked at many said, if I teach you how to show horses, you do a real good job preparing your horses and you have never have trouble with your horses speed and I said, what you mean?

He said, when it's you're back on the neither of horses leg, you make sure you done your year. You make sure you're done your preparation where somebody else is back on the neath of the horse. You get lazy.

You won't pick up a speed you won't handle. Exec, and and he did teach me to sha horses, and i'm glad did, because in those early years I was started. So I did shot horses and calls. I did whatever I could do survive and and I tell you what, there was some of the greatest skills that ever learned, because because I pride myself on your horses staining, still not fucking not having a drag on to get him shot. They just stand there like statues and but that's a skill set that is all around.

Guys had, yeah, yeah, I think you had to. And I think what they taught me to is how you can change where a horse moves about the way he shot. And may be understand sometimes that what's going wrong with the horse yeah and even when I was shown the pleasure horse are right, make fun of me because we'd put a shoe on and walk the horse off and throat and low, then we back and change issue angles and a head.

Lot of people make fun, but IT was because of that early background that I learned. Okay, you do this and I can change. And I think that's something about keeping horses sound and stuff even today is very important. That failure is very important to your success.

You know, in business, you Better have a great account and a great lawyer and as a horse trying to you Better have a great vet and a great ferry that's you don't have those like even in northwest, I can so I drive all my horses back to texas to get him short north bit yeah, when I moved here, when I retired, IT wasn't known for ferries here. No, i'm not saying it's not a decent ferry here, but it's not known for performance source ferries. I drive them six years every five weeks because I don't have, especially because I have a smaller band. I have ten horses and ten, so I don't have if I had thirty, forty horses, I could probably gate one of those good guys to come to me, but we ten and that's not enough to be one.

Well, there's not still not a lot of horse shows as far as that type of advance and stuff appears more than open, yes. And that type of stuff like that is some really superstar ropers have come out of this country, yes, but is not the horse .

world show world is A. You can get some good ferries, but there's a difference between the specialization of a hino car horse and cara. So let me ask you, I always ask, every guessed this of their mentors and people they learned from.

In your case, that happened to be dad, at least your first major mentor. What was some of the two if you could name between one and three key lessons or key things that you're dad really is still in you as a Young horseman, what would you name them to be? No mean like that was his big hot bonds.

You didn't do IT he kick your us or he drove in. You do this, do that. You want to mean, could you know anything in particular?

Number one was my work ethics. You had to work in a steel. Believe that up till today, I mean, you don't see anyone winning at the top level that does work lots and lots hours and they're not devoted to IT. In number two, I think IT was was taking care of the horses is how how you took care the horse in with us.

IT was more you treat the horse like you you yourself how would you want to be taken care of and that to me that was the two basic things from dad was the work and they doing that and then ah the other thing probably that dad was really good at was showing a horse how to do something instead of making him do something. You and I think that was something that was hard for me early on to learn and figure out. Okay, i'm teaching this horse to do that.

I'm not making him do that. Don't miss understand. There's time, there's times when you have to, they're like children. They're like people.

The more you can treat a horse like a person and make him understand things and taking through these steps. And if you miss one, those steps will time out. Let's go back. Just cover that step. And so I think that was some of the basic things that dad taught me that was really.

really stuck with you whole career. Yeah, the worker thinks a huge one is the thing will make up for a lack .

of talent over and over. Yeah.

i've said this publicly many times. I'm not a naturally talented horseman at all. I've had to work really hard and to developed my skills. And I always said there was a lot of a Better, Better horseman out there and even cognition ans, but I beat them because I at work.

Yeah, what was a weakness for me, which is natural talent I had to make up for that and just working hard, I had worked them. So i'm not a shame I didn't have any talent. I just shows that as as a bath IT.

Yeah, well, and I think that's what I said ago. You don't see anyone in the top level of any event that doesn't work very hard and put lots and like if you don't put those hours into IT, you know don't win this way.

IT is avella has a pretty cool sign that he said to me one time, bob abla, he said, you can ride a hosh real hard, but you Better to take care of him twice as hard. Yeah, that's very two legs. Now that's where the all the new space might have the different in IT know i've had a for four years and every after every ride, I put him in that spired thirty six degrees from the knees and hawks down and all us say legs for twenty minutes.

And I mean, my sounds is gone through the roof. The amount objections from vets, my vet bills have decrease by at least fifty percent minimum, not just by a bicycle. Been around for thousand years. I seen a horses like.

don't you wish we took care of sales? Yeah, it's like, no, but they do. The horses are, you know, even at all the cut in down stuff. You have the, you have the magnetic way. If you have everything, the Carol therapy, you have everything going on.

Take everybody. He's looking for that edge now once they jody, because it's got so named tough. The competition is so tough.

There's so many talented horse trainers, men and women, and so many talented them, horses that everybody's looking for that age. Mean, personally, I think the next age is in soundness. The guy that can keep his course.

the soundness, that's what I just get ready to say, is Normally you on the third of bread business always would say that same thing ninety percent of time, the soundness horses, one that went. And so keeping those horses sound especially like in the cutting out all our big Victory. We have four go rounds.

You have your practice works in between those go rounds you're going for and you got to go full speeding or like said, everybody, so good yeah there's no just mark in in every score anymore. You're going out there. You have go all out if you go make the finals and so everything and so keep that horse sound is very, very, very important. Horses today, you're taking so much Better care of everybody.

understand all those valuable. Now, jody, you know you should take care of a horse anyway, but you get what i'm saying, these horses financially expensive. Now you're not going to stand in business.

If you keep Carrying a map, you don't take good care of them. Those owners are going to .

drink and poem, that is silver.

Spurs equal austrian roster consisted over thirty of the industry's top performers and producers locations in both Scott deal, arizona in percent, oklahoma, top quality prospect offered to the public. We want to see you went on a silver spurs horse. We have expanded our brita's futurity incentive and taking IT to the next level by matching chain pay out of all levels and in a non pro petition. These events now include.

Course aside by silver sport, italians have bigger opportunities to compete for more money at the N R A J derby. We will also pay the champions of novice horse darby divisions, and even bigger pays to the champions of the four year old states. See our website for full details server pursey coin dot com.

When IT comes to horse street as the only brain that are used from now on as elite, i've had every other brain over the last twenty five years. And honestly, the one I keep coming back to his elite because they last, they don't break in the heavy duty. Yes, I have a little more expensive.

absolutely. But you get what you painful. If you want cheap, you're gonna get cheap. If you want something well build, it's gonna a little more money.

The deal of what I use now, Jason, to sham out of oklahoma, the last four trailers I bought, i've Price shopped him with five other dealers. He is absolutely smoked among Price, has not even got close to Jason's Price. I even beat his trailers out against cheaper brains that I know are going to be a cheap er trailer.

He still beat their Prices. So if you're looking for a newer trailer or you, anna, try to trail or buy a use one, get a hold, Jason, call him text. What's IT worth the phone call? I promise you there will not be a dealer er in the country that will beat his Price. Mention that you watch the uncut railroad podcast for additional savings.

Are you tired of worrying about the safety and comfort of your horses of livestock while you're on the road? Look no further than oklahoman trailer, the premier choice for hauling your precious cargo with unmatched reliable don't settle for anything less than the best when IT comes to your trailers for all your horse trailer needs stock trailers, living quarters, contact Jason do shark at the oklahoma trailer ranch where we sell elite ite, logan and gal products for any of your howling mention clinton uncut, real and raw podcast and get the very best Price. Jason will not be undersold by any dealer. Call him now at two four, eight, four, five nine, two zero, one zero and remember, Jason do sham will not be undersold.

Okay, so after school, I suspect you just ran back to the band. You couldn't you just for .

horse crazy kid had go back that. And because I get a little older, I want to play baseball OK my school, get in high school and read out of court, read out of high school and in the cars, play summer ball around here from some their legs and to my shoulders, and couldn't ay any more, which was a blessing, because I was good enough. You know, you think you are about that age, not near you thin, so quit that completely and went back to the horses and was lucky enough at dad had a couple of customers that let me take a stand and start holding him for the on a role, plays your star in in the world and safety five.

And so so that's when you started getting in the pleasure, did you what made you have over different all around, kid, you dad was an all around host china. What made you kind of head towards a pleasure industry? That was that the biggest industry, the most money, may choose that as opposed to rope in or cutting uranium. I'm very curious. You got into that track.

I tried the open in the bear back ride and all that. What good is, is go around here. Some of the world champion e cable is all come from spring deal and around here.

And so I never want good enough at that. And so at that point time, the pressure and a create was the big thing, the good and had broke into anything like IT at that point in time. What is we talking about? Well, that started in seventy five was when I started with that in about seventy seven and seventy eight, IT kept IT kept grown. And then starting and eighty, we started to have all these pleasure furious. And those were paying seventy thousand and eighty thousand.

And that was big money back in those.

That was huge money. Yeah was so if i'm .

getting not to put words in your mouth, you basically saying, clinton, I went to the pleasure industry because that's where the money was, that where the popularity was, and I could make a living IT. Is that did I had exactly right?

Okay, exactly right. Because I had success. Always success let you go. Okay, I can do. And like so in seven five i've had that. When seventy nine I had a world's champion players er or marine stuff. And so eighty, all the pattern stuff we had the texas classic, the arkansas gamble, the congress, lisa, and ahead one in one year, one over two hundred thousand dollars on one pleasure horse.

That's also, and neck money back in the.

that was a lot of money.

That was a lot duck carbon. Before he passed, he said, clinton, back in the idea, hundred grain got you a lot more than what IT doesn't.

That kind of money was life change and against each other. And doug was a magnificent trainer and dug was awesome. Picking horses out.

No, he he was really good to pick and out horses and stuff like that. So that's where we all came along. And IT was funny back then. There won't need to set ways to .

train a horse that can ask you in the pleasure world when you would just get and started. Did you take the foundation from your dad and then can to add your own spin to IT? Or how did you get your by your training technique?

Well, I started with ad, and then I get very lucky. When David, I first got married, we moved to chicago and went to work for sables. At that point in time, Candy apples was training horses out there. true.

And I got to know Kenny and dian and kini was still one of the greatest trainers that there ever was in my pain in, because he helped, he helped show me how to collect a horse, how to move horses shoulder. We've got to go over to the lip is on school, and what seems some, so that experience, so come in from dad to come up there. IT was like two completely opposite world, but he taught me, had to control horses shoulder and had a morning s body parts and how to do all that in kenya, I always laugh.

He had a horse cold visit, and I had at my panne since in, and at that point in time, no horses in this part of the country i'd ever been brightling LED up. That was all out west in california. Well, we brightling him up and had a monto fool, right? Well, we go show sometimes the stuff we need to be first and second, we both get the gate ah because I mean, judges didn't know what to do with that that point in time. But I still think that was a very blessing from my show career.

Yeah yeah. But learning that.

learning different skills.

how well would you have been in that time period?

Only twenty early twenty at a probably in twenty seven right somewhere, right.

And where are you trying to horses? That now, what location, mary marie, what made you move there? Well.

we were in missouri from chicago. We moved down to cuba, missouri. And I told David, said, if i'm ever going to be able to see the kids growing up, we've got to go to .

all about this day.

You have a Young family yeah, was born and then Wesley was born yeah, at that when we moved missouri and staff, so is like, hey, if i'm going to show, i've decided to start get into the Kitty a little bit. At that point time, i'd flown down to fourth worth, showed one for dead. But hey, I need to do both.

Start, get back in that again. And so is like, hey, we've got to go down here to be in the center of the horse world. I can't be a parent misery.

If i'm going to do both, I try to see you. I gone all the time. So .

mary at oklahoman.

any particularly reason why you pick marry out of all playing well?

Well, I actually went to dicks and local home. We were out outside of first. And then I moved to marry a to here about sixteen years ago.

So but IT was the same area, the same important, just because IT was a half way between okhotsk where the world show was, but worth was cut ferdy. It's exactly in the middle. And that's how fact that and IT IT worked, right? Tell me when you .

were doing the pleasure and you you were doing well and you were winning like seventies, early eighties was IT. Where were you getting a good stock from? Where you breathe IT with where client send up to you? How are you find him always fascinated because you know as well as you, you can't win without the stock. That's so how are you finding what was your age to getting that .

great at that point in time? I had a bunch of friends and theyd call, say, hey, we see a horse here. I was going to I got contacted with Norman reals, who has zippo pan bar in nebraska.

I'd fly up every year, go through all of his sources, pick up these, be rough looking the legally year and and stuff, and go through and pick those out. And so that was a big part of if we drive and searching and there wasn't the really people weren't bread place your horses he had at that point. I was because they weren't.

And so I was like we d drove around and i'd have to try and pick up these year. And that moved a certain way. Thank you.

okay. I can take that horse and turn IT into this. And that there was a lot of miles, a lot of work, a lot of.

don't mention that to me a lot. He said before the whole internet deal, there was a lot of big breeding farms. When they in the middle, ste was in the eyes, illinoi the brass, all those places. Why was that such a harbor hot bid film? A lot of big time breeding.

I think you had a lot of the holder horse people and a lot of the pizza ranch and different ones up through there. Uh, and I couldn't take exactly why that.

but I was hot bit.

but it's a hot bit yeah don't I mean, there was a lot of horses to pick through up there, I think down in texas in olam at that point in time, even either ray sources or rope horses. And this the .

cutting IT started. So the britain part of that tech noth texas hadn't come and is back when you get a cargo, get your eyes and I was no internet.

they say weren't say you phone pix. There's a video of my horse. No, there any of that did you just had get him going?

Look at. So basically, if I, if I hear correctly, you just had to go hunting down to find him hunting down. Did you try to buy me with your own money? You want with customers money.

with money, which was very slim at that point. Couple two, three other customers that would held them. But I don't take the chance. No, I was very lucky for as airport of IT.

That's awesome. That's awesome. So you moved in. Mary ada, how many horses you gotten .

trained and enjoy? I just four, five, right?

Slow coming. No, not nail. But when that I you doing well in the pleasure, we had around fifty .

head at that point.

Truly.

you got big. We get big. But see, I get member as doing cutting and pleasure at same time for almost fifteen years.

So back up just a little. But i'm trying to go out at what point and where you wear in the pleasure will when you said, heck, I want to start at home other division of the cutters. So what was that was a returning point that made you say, I want to get into the cutting when you burn out some pressure horses when you tired, you just enjoy IT. But you wanted get into cutting. What made you make that jump or that decision that you want a spotted on?

Well, dad was still shown at the cutting of turning.

and he done specialized. He specialized in cutting.

So he had an next to horse I came to forward show that horse from, and sort of giving the bug a again, little bit. This would have been an eighty two or three somewhere in the, and I had all the pleasure horses, so I thought, well, i'm going to go buy one cut or he trained IT for the cut and fury. I think that was eighty three.

And so that was a miracle dixi landtag. So ta kid in the fourth th, eighty two, eight, three, whatever. So like that and I made the finals are first one. First one I train american xy line to. So of course, the end i've got the book right. So like, okay, so well, now i've got to do the pleasure to make enough money for the family to raise a family, keep doing that and still trying to cut in hours to go down. So I double my work load right off the back because about, yes, yes.

So let me ask you, in that first cut that you made the finals on, who helped you train at your dad, what techniques who did you follow? Because obviously, there's a big difference to come from western pleasure horse on the rio to try to cut up. It's like gone from a rain into a kota. You tell them what to do, you dictating even a pleasure, you really dictating everything to how fast ago and had said the collection. So who taught you the basic skills are training in the cut?

Well, I think I went back to my dad's basics. You stop with the car and you turn the car and you go with the car. But then I added the body control of the pleasure, the pleasure world.

yeah. And so I have draw rains on some mccumber. And yeah, I remember first time I took a groins to get horse, I thought they going, run me. You can have those around here, you know? So he was the blending .

of two world and some skill set from the pleasure world of get them broke and soft and supple. What made you, and this is one very curious about this, because I think what your son Wesley is done is just completely a unique and unheard of, is that the old saying in the cutting world is always been, you know, you can't have too much. You can't have face on the cut. You can't have em. You can't have him both.

You can't have soft and collected because I want work care, right? And I always heard that, and I always personally thought I was bullsh myself because my other mentor and a try in france to see on the right in for thirteen, five times, when the cut in for three, three times, you go gonna want to his cutter and pulled on that that some which gave, yeah, you know, he gave its face soft IT was brought OK and but he was the odd guy in a try. And and a lot of people i've here said he couldn't be done.

Your son completely blew that out the water because his horses, i've I read one, but have been around enough to look at them. And they are broke to dead and but they still care. You can't .

say they don't .

sign that. Everybody said, is that one woof? The cartons is clearly bullshit. Now I might not work for nine percent of them if you're not a good enough hand to get him broke, but IT will work, decide that IT doesn't work.

So what i'm curious is, when you went to train your first cut down, what made you say, okay, joke. If I take some of this body control and collection and softness from this pleasure world, and you would have been the freak at this point, and you would have been completely out on an oil. And by yourself, what made you just, quite honestly, have the balls, have the intuition, decide i'm going to do something funk and different? I want to try something different.

What made you say what the way they do in IT? Because back in those days, IT would have been all pure, careful, les correct, strike big bit on they put them on cows after forty five days and start in a cold. IT would have been old school, correct.

Back in those days, I don't think IT was as much to do something different. Is this what I knew, what to do OK once you learn to control horse's body? Yes.

it's hard, hard. Not not. Yeah, okay.

So it's like, okay, i've gotten do this. I mean, so I started at and I thought for years the difference advocate, leave him alone enough to keep the cw and get and broke. So that was always the chAllenge, yes, of how you do that. And so that that was the thing I thought.

yeah, because you correct me from wrong. And if i'm wrong, please correct me. The the more you handsome, in essence, you taking the cw autumn and and they listening to you too much and then the more you let them care, they are care but they get scrappy.

They're get lead with the shoulder that they get too called up and it's sloppy, correct? So you constantly get them get them correct and making them listen, and then put in some more cow back in to them. Is that kind of .

help that is correct? And you have to find that find line. Yes, in essay, when you say correct, correct today and how horse works is a long way .

from what correct was back then, talking about .

what correct was .

back then. We're early in. He was one .

eighty two, I think, yeah. And he was the first year I made the finals, was went to, was back then. We blocked to care.

When you say blocked like the care.

you say more face step to the care OK to. And in some of we even went some ways, okay, but you held the cat like that. And then eventually I kept gradually, where you had to run stricter and stop and five little more form is what they call that and stuff which adds the degree.

difficult. Yes, the stricter iran.

stricter iran and stop, the more degree directory IT is back then you'd have a few horses. They could do that, and they were win. A was one look at IT, but very few. So IT just gradually became that everybody kept add more and more of the run stop and not not as much face step and jump around. So tell me.

why did that change happen? Was there a particular horse that changed that star? reason? I asset like in the raining, for example, when redstone, when the rain in fury in one thousand nine hundred ninety two and romantic, he came in broader up, you know, first was that really came in look and cool, broader up. And that changed the whole industry, every from that on the old east coast, nose poke day out, head up in the air that disappear. Was was there a particular horse in the cutting the change that style or not?

I don't know that there's a particular horse. I think IT was just the trainers talking yeah more and more like, okay, this this is more and everybody kept going on and stuff like that and few trainers came along and then IT really, really just kept gradually. I don't think you could just say one thing changed IT.

I know I really don't think there was one horse started adding the liming cattle and the exotic cattle to cross on the black bodies in the stuff. So cattle started run, and more so you had to go. So you had to go faster.

And stuff, if you were going side ways or doing that little bit, you know, you you were going to get left behind and stuff. And I think if we started breeding, and they started breeding, cutting horse bird lines, the best to the best back the end at that point. And then so all of a sudden, we had these sources that were more athletic, and they could do that.

You started breaking your play ways to get the ad and then hybrid c come along. And when you say one horse now, then probably hybridity changed the industry as much as anything because they were so smart. They weren't as athletic yeah is something.

But they were the smart st courses that we'd all never had to train. They seem trying able to and that's what and that's what a small I mean, like you could is like anybody I don't want say anybody could train. It's like you can do you can do everything you want to do that have real cat when you put your hand down.

Most of were going to go ahead and cut, yeah, you know? And so that that was a blessing. So then we could start adding more body control.

And their body starts talking about what this is right, this is wrong. This is how horse supposed to work. This is how he's not supposed to work yeah when IT and so that's that's word involved.

Love clinton uncut and real raw podcast get the merge t shirts, caps and shot glasses, all available from sweet and innocent to spicy and raw shop the full line at shop dot down under horsemanship dotcom.

You know, every train is looking for an edge on the competition. You know whether it's a Better horse, Better way to train IT. But really in reality, over trainers are got access to great horses over training is are doing a lot of the same techniques.

To me, the next greatest age on competition with the raining, cutting, cahors, bending racing is keeping your horses sound and ready for competition. The last four years i've been inspiring my by coal creek in SPA, and I sparing for twenty minutes every day after arriving at thirty six degrees, and ice is down all four legs. What a game changer.

My vet bills have been cut back by fifty percent. My horses soundness is been gone through the roof. okay?

People think the spas are expensive. It'll pay for itself just on saving on bed bills in the first eighteen months. Spas have been around for a long time, but for the years they've been junk.

They have broken more than they actually walk. You needed to be like a plum engineer to make some bitches walk. Coal creek equal are using the latest technology, industrial strength machines that are basically maintenance free.

Anybody can Operate the thing, even me as a whole train I can Operate. And more than an ending IT stays walking. Go to the website, check out.

It's a game changer in the next ten years. If you're professional host china, if you don't have a SPA, you will be left behind on your equine SMS. So when you went to the cotton tree that first year, you will probably stop that.

You made the open finals on your first year, oh, my year.

and I was proud. So by that point, you'll just talk to that. You like crew, these pleasures, but you can't say screw this business because you got to .

feed the family and there's still paying seven eighty thousand dollars to players for and so yeah, I just kept them. So yeah, i'm run in here and there and we're showing a tennessee in a hop on a plane flat of the congress showed place for her to the next morning. Help back on the plane, show the cutter the next day back.

And was this back in the days when .

you hide joy content? Yes, yes, yes. Troy and tod summers and all guys and I couldn't done IT without there was guys. May I give you a lot .

of that's one of the big reasons, I wonder interview myself because they speak extremely highly of you and and thank you for setting a map with their careers and teaching them the best six and all both of those guys about both personally told me that one of the greatest things about you is you gave these Young trainers enough space to go hang themselves, enough space to go fuck up ah and then get involved in cell.

Kay, i'm going to help let's get out of this and you know what to do. And then you walk a while. You didn't mark a management. You gave them enough space to go experiment. And when I got into trouble, I knew .

had to.

Maybe you weren't that.

but you was a necessity now. Now IT was those guys were such great hands, and mal and all those guys did. I mean, the girl named darleen, they took care me so good in that point. I couldn't have started IT on IT without.

So let me ask you, after you make the open finals on your first tours, how do you get your second cut of third cut of customer system?

I had I had a lady that bought me a couple horses instead of the time. The people they don't that when bought to know that one.

was that how to get people to bye orses for you, especially at first when you hadn't even really shown in cutting, was that hard to talk somebody and I listen, take a gambled on me. I'm going going to kicking out in the pleasure. Did you have to cut any deals that you have to tell him? I O trying to for free the first .

one which know actually I was lucky because IT was some pleasure horse people that has went in for and I said, hey, let's go try that is okay so I mean, that's worked out great so that I was lucky that you know IT came from that IT was some cutting horse family they said here we're seen jodie the you place your horse training .

because you hadn't proved just right now once you made the open finals was an easy to start getting people from the cut in the industry to send you.

Not really the first years because I was still considered pleasure or trainer debt. So you I was still a little bit IT was the savior because of dad was so good in the cut or so I wasn't like a complete outcast and I would say that, but it's still the image of the pleasure. So you know, the rising up are moving their hips and stuff like that. And then as he went along, thanks, just advanced and then kept going.

yes. So tell me about the evolution of the the pleasure horses from money started shown on the pleasure industry is obviously changed a lot over the years. Some people say it's change for the worst, some change for the Better of the home of argument to but but what did you see an evolution of the horses? During how many years do you think when you start to trying pleasure horses to when you completely retired from how many years spin was at ten, fifteen thousand or twenty, fifteen or twenty? Did you see any major change, changes in that fifteen.

twenty years lately?

What was positive? What was negative? What tell me about those changes that you like?

Tell me some that you didn't like? Tell me what you agreed with or didn't great. Tell me something about some of those changes.

Well, I think during that period time when I first started in seventy five, when I want on a role playing today horse, his head was still up yeah and his nose out at that point in time, a lot of was like, hey, if you got your lead and you walk out and up and get your lead and didn't run off, you probably want, yes, okay, there wasn't any of the standard here.

So then you started advanced and and again, I go back everything about communication, the examiners communicate what is good, what is not? We all start put on a few clinics and trying to teach, okay, the front legs supposed to do this, the back league supposed to do this, which is good, which is the hardest to do. And you start teaching, you start talking.

And the more people talk and more you communicate with each other stuff and it's like that's where all the advantage to come from. I think I think communication is such a key and learn and all that some people will go, well, that's bad or that's bad or that's good. Well, let's all talk about that.

Let's say, why is that good or why is that bad stuff like that? And so we started having clinics and say, and okay, this plays your horse. The way he tracks that's Better than the way that you start to heaven open. When he loops is a hook.

What does he do? What is the front leg day? You know, what is that? And so once you start talking about those things in more than that, but I starts working toward date, and at that point time you go in a pleasure class, there might be two or three horses.

They could do that. Yeah, the rist I can come close to do and trying to do that. Yeah, so you just keep going on the stuff.

And then they started breathing place close your horses. They started breaking them the same. They breed the best to the best. And so all of us said.

was that a game changed? Do you think.

in your opinion, was, I think that was because what .

was the first site in the pleasure, whose industry that you can remember, like you mentioned, hybrid, a cat in the cutting with their particular, are in the pleasure world that .

you think change that industrial?

What might him that that horses projects?

Horses were just good minded, and I think he was stancy as scholars, something that showed him. But they could do a little bit. They all around, but they were such good minded that you could do a little bit here and they could try and lock softly.

They didn't just run off and they move. They weren't quite a stuff straight hot as you d like them over and stuff. But that sort of change.

Then think of me. And he started to heaven, the hot rotter horses and hot rotter blood lands, which were were strained, stifle horse. So starting across in those on the zip POS never, thanks.

Started advance and like that. So the breeding m program is what ever by start breathing for a certain fine. Yes.

that's what changes all that. okay? What was IT hard for you to evolve with the pleasure was an easy IT was easy for you to make the changes with the pleasure industry .

IT was easy for me to do IT, but was because of the people around me, because of Kenny apps in die, because of things that he, I learned up there, that I can't place enough emphasis on. What kini and I taught in timko was up there around that area. At the same time, we all go to shows together and everybody around there. And that was such a learning because no one was sit here going, here's what you're supposed to do yeah nowadays have all these clinics, all these types says, here's how you train a horse well, we didn't know .

that youtube is the world library now. Yeah, I got four hundred videos on youtube for free. The people can watch. So you know, the old days when you go to the library and you want to learn about some, youtube is literally the world's library. Now know you want to learn about anything in the world, typed IT into youtube and you loan.

Well, right now you go click on clint ander since say, okay, here's how you do this so horse, yeah, back then we didn't have that. We were experiment is like, okay, hey tim, hey, you know, guys, how do we do this? How do we get this source to do that? Know how do you collect to me, how you make a move? And so you'd ask and learn.

And then we all started making some videos and everything advanced from there. But that that was a big change. But that that was a blessing to me. IT wasn't still had the largest snowfall over in the history of the eighty degrees below zero wind. Yeah, he was horrible and never been back, yes, but is still when looking back, IT was a great experience for me, had been able to do there's awesome.

So if you had to say and put not to put words in your world with the biggest skills is said you took from the pleasure will added to the color is just body control collection and body control. Do you feel like that collection and getting a horses body soft and supple? What is the age that you think that gives those colors?

Well, I think IT lets that horse go do the things that we're asking to do today a lot Better. I don't think a horse could do the things that were asking him the physical, the way they stop. And that unless you do these things to him, because IT let us back down a horse, when I say throw the shoulder.

they would stop and the shoulder .

would come shoulder first. Well, that's not good. yeah. okay. And so by body control, you learn how to make the horse not bring your shoulder first. no.

And so there he can control a cow Better if he sits here and he beans like that and does that, he's not knocking that cow away from me, his bed. Yes, he's learned in the circular called into him and create that action and create those points. And to me, that's what body controlled is is let you create more body body style.

Had more when you went to that first cotton maturity. Did people watch you work horse to people think you are a bit weird, like like what you know because you doing stuff clearly. And those early years that is very foreign to that will you must have some people asking some questions. You go taking you're a weed.

I seriously, I did, and stuff that I was really lucky in that I had some really good friends. I got him with a great group progress. That was Billy for me and build Terry rit OK.

And then we all sort of formed a group and got accepted in that gray player reader. Help me a lot. Everybody help.

But they would say, why are you doing that? And I don't think that's right. Yes, you know, i've had people say the perfect grade is leave that horse alone and never text a horse.

That's, well, that would be great if we could do that, but that's not possible. So yeah, I went through that, but nobody really ever osteria zed me. They would just save why you doing that.

I don't even once said, hey, we shouldn't draw rains on. So I I did hear that a few times. But but IT was everybody accepted in, I got really lucky, get around a great group progress. And they helped me a whole of a lot.

Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. Talking about with like, thank you. In an idea of world, you don't touch the range, you don't touching with your feet.

But we don't live in a perfect world. Ian, like ian france is why I have some much respect for him. Like is I won the rain and fury five times and cut for twenty three times.

He has a safety on his Carters that that know he could be. And the cows horses just shaped up to a cow, and he'll get him to where you could ride horses with just your leg. When you press leg, they will crack through that turn, stop, cracked back through the turn.

He never moves his, him and I said, why do you want him to turn off your leg even if the cows not moving? And he said, it's just my insurance policy, but if I go to show one. And that cow goes to move, and my horse is a little blame.

When I press at league, he's gonna turn and he said, I gotto go to the cotton filter with maybe two horses or three. My competitors went to the cotton feature, because in australia, at least back in those, they didn't limit to three horses or two horses. He said, my competitors ago, there were ten fury calls. If three or four of them don't cut or piece off on the, they don't k, he said, and i'm going with two horses. And so he said, i've gotta a have a safety net that if my hall didn't turn and I press him with leg, he don't rare up, he don't piss off. He just goes right back to the game and he said, that's another reason why even when the cows going across the pen, i'll just take my legs, make that things shut down, even if the cows go on, so that if you get a little long or sometimes not quite work and I got a safety net day, you agree or disagree?

Oh, I agree completely because that leg control, that was something again that I used when I first coming in in staff. And like I remember taught westly, when you spot hot, he could fold both arms on spot yeah and run work. And he could bake him, sit on this side, p cargo all the way across, all the way back, and then released and go work a cw, yeah.

So that was simply, again, we got criticize for that lag control at one point time a little bit. And that's where I say you have to find a happy medium. But that was again from being with on kid and doing all those things out there.

You learn if you're going ride a pleasure horse or think about riding a two year old around an arena, fully loose rain, not be able to pick up doing a walk out in love on a two year old. You got to use your legs, right? You do.

You going to have to use your legs. So you should learn to do that. That still, when the hardest things are used to do, absolute is on the place.

A horse is a two year old to do that. Not many two year old cutter could go look bad in and stuff like that. So that's where we learned the legs.

And so that's another thing they're passed on. And some of my buddies in that group that was talking about, we all talk about legs. And some of us said, no, we should never do that. Others accepted IT. But I had to do IT because, sorry.

where I knew to train yeah yeah you know because i'm learning the cutting now was right. Okay, and i'm very Green at IT, but i'm enjoying the hell out of IT and got my first cutter and trying to IT. I'm lucky of the first toys have got she's such a good mounted which I can half full at all and you'll forgive me .

over all and we start again and it's a was .

really worth White and go because he lets me learn on her, told me if i've got this rider role. okay. And no, so from the outside, because whatever you go to a new industry, you get to see things with a fresh eyes, okay? And IT seems like the cutters you have basically two camps of of theory.

Okay OK, you've got what you call on one hand, and i'm not same once Better than the other. I'm just saying what I noticed on one hand, you ve got what all call, for lack of a Better word, your pure, your pure care. Who is guys? what? I'm straight.

No leg, no ban, just pure old school care horse. Don't want to move off your leg. Don't want to manipulated bending sophana.

Ea, okay. And they want to more up into a cow going across the those guys. He's the positive to that type of train technique. Those horses are real cow. They look at the cow that real, animated, real up, just real, real cow, right? And that whip your us in the fatalities that early years, that whip your us.

But as they start go on four, five and six year old year, because they got such little body control on them and little leg on them, those horses, or beat them off, the end starts open and kicking their are out. They basically get worse. The old of they get because they cheat you more.

Then the other opposite of that is the guys that get them really broke, okay, and soft and supple and broke and and the criticism might be, well, there too mechanical, you know, they're not purse. They are too mechanical. But those guys IT seems like when I watched their horses, they still care.

But as they get older, they get Better. They four year old, year five year old, they six year old, they not cheat, right? They're get in broker because as they get, they just get in. Caller, is that a wrong for me? And part of IT a tell me.

I think part of the at, I don't think there's hardly anyone anymore. Maybe I don't think there's anyone that's strictly one way or the other anymore. okay. I think everybody has adjusted like what there's a fine age.

You use your legs some and you don't don't use your legs some, very few, like you say, very few people that don't use legs at all are successful. Yeah people that use their legs too much. There's not suit.

yes. So I think it's still we still want the horse to do as much of IT on his own as you can. But just like your friend said, you ve got to have something to help that horse a little bit.

And so that's where the giant broke. Teaching him how to move and doing those things comes. And you're exactly right on the point.

The ones that are more broke are the ones that are still cutting. They're more consistent. No, they will be there three and four years now. So you're there .

Better get the horses. Less broke might win more in those only furu years. But then they made pitter out pretty quick. You know, a map gains has been helping with the cardinal. I'm very thankful and lucky to having in helping me. And I probably driving not with all my first question, but but what yeah you know, I driving not, but he's a very good teacher.

And where he's trying to explain this to me is, is clintons like this is you've got a in my mind, I think of IT like two cups of water, one cups cow and one cup body control, right? And and making them wait and be correct. So when they're too correct, they waited on you too much.

When they wait on you too much, you got, got to have you care. So you gna have to give up a little control, let them cow up a little more, let them be a little stiff, especially because I come from a raining background. And you, even you're in the pleasure. We want sot, we want to broke to date. So so i'm i'm obsessed to a point of its hurts me with having him to soft and supple and collected to where they're not calling enough. So now he's tried basically say, hai, when they wait on you too much, let IT let someone that should go and let them care so i'll let them care a little bit more for dial two and then IT starts getting trashy and then I go back yeah get him correct and do that for couple of days and you agree with that. It's kind like had a little bit of hot war, had a little .

cold fine line a ball ago.

It's real file. It's a real finally.

it's a real flight. And each horse is different on that final. That's what it's into trouble here. Some horses are more cali than others. Some want to take the camera. So though you can put more control on, yeah, the ones that aren't that key, you can't put as much control.

And in fact, that's a comment that made he segment. When I started first down train cut noses, he said lot of these some bias, roche said, you couldn't handle them if you handle the them and shaped them and do but shit that you do now they just went fun cut.

They just hand, that's what I said harrik come along and he put the cow sorin horse. Yes, we wrote a lot of fricking playable athletes and stuff like, but someone was done.

They would you look at that? That's exactly, he said. Now they're so called brad. You're almost tell one of not the cut, not the cut, not the cut, not the cut .

because I want to cut so bad, not turns of yes, actually saying is you don't want him to turn quite so fast. You want to make them read that cow as they come through there and that's where your body control comes. Yeah, yeah.

Well, i'm enjoying IT. It's frustrating sunday, to be honest. IT is everybody, everybody. It's brush writing because it's so know one day you think you got ta figure that out and then the next day he told to shit. But I like you a lot more and I could .

see myself getting into the lot is the greatest chAllenge. L everyday, whether it's the raining or glaser cow horses or whatever, cutting is steel because you have to be on that loose rain. IT still makes the huge and is still the hardest thing in the world that IT is possible. And that's why it's so, Shelly, but that's why so rewarding when you get IT and you do good because like, well, I really did. I really got that yeah and it's a magnificent export.

Yeah no, I really is so so what was their particular horse either in the pleasure or I will start with the pledge, never moved the cut with your particular horse that really changed you as a horseman or change your training style with a big aha moment in your training a pleasure horses, because i'm going to ask the same with cutting, but with because most know all done in the way, said a great horse makes a great train. You know, expensive hobby was his great airport. Know really when you out, when you really think about every great, trying to have that first tours to put him on the map, you know, what was your first pleasure horse that really taught you something will gave you the confidential, made you believe that, okay.

I can really do this. Well, in one hundred and eighty one I had amErica benz's rosy went to the playa purity. Whether he was gorgeous SHE was different than any other player was about SHE just had a leaner look SHE moved a little sweep here when she's low and tried you barely feel her even hit the gram beautiful just so soften. Just a special equity .

inns and stains over a thirty champion performance stains. They strive to provide options to the top prospects for every preference and budget. Raining is the main focus of server spose breeding program, and they have developed a million dollar chAllenge as an incredible incentive that offers huge piotto, the champions of seven different raining competitions around the world.

Silver spurs also raises about one hundred and fifty falls per year at their ranch in okhotsk. Each one is offered to the public for sale. This provides a wide variety options to buy as looking for the next prospect, and most would be eligible for the million dollar chAllenge. Find the perfect cross of traditional performance force bloodlines. Combined with the modern dynamics of today's performer sources, all available prospects can be found at service spye horses dot com.

How do you know what IT takes to become successful? Talk to someone who's done IT clinton nanda's and became a multi million air by leveraging his passion for horse training into a global brand and media empire, starting with nothing but the change in his pocket and the will to succeed. In doing so, he revolutionized an industry and became a celebrity.

Now you can put his experience and advice to work for your business with clinton Anderson's business consultancy. You can tap into clinton s unique perspective. Here is straight talk and get us no nonsense advice.

Just imagine yourself on with clinton harder knowledge and entrepreneurship spirit. So whether you want to arrange or any sort of business at all, we invite you to discover the transformative power of clinton. Enter leadership and innovation in your business call one a day, eight, two, eight, seven, seventy four, thirty two, to take your business to the next level today.

Wanting get your brand noticed, advertising opportunities now available, including titles, sponsorship and episode sponsorships, beyon cut and real raw podcast is among the top of one percent of podcast. The mining, with nearly a million downloads, join our winning team and come along for the ride email, social APP, uncut and real broad 点 com for more information。 See clinton and Anderson and is down under horsemanship. Meet the live order tickets now for the walk about tour december twenty first and twenty second and climbs for ticket information and a full list of upcoming tour dates and locations, visit down under horsemanship dot com.

So jody were back from the break. That man's name again.

bananas, roses.

Okay, you would teach me how special he was.

Go from there. yes. So this mayor just had a different looks. You hunger head, neck at just beautiful, beautiful, a level, real level of flat, good minded, and how you get .

a some customer .

center to me.

or did I break a body?

Know they had batters early and year with this. This would be eighty, one thousand nine hundred and eighty and broader to me. And he would just special.

So we went the congress, but and at this time, I really had one of much I seven, eight, nine, eight in the world, but still we're struggling and trying to make a go of IT. This mayor went to the colors, one the first go around, one the second go around. At that point time, they had three goes and command all three schools.

So go into the third, go and judge and in places, have a great ride, and come to find out some things went on and stuff like that. I think at that point time, that changed everything because everybody was like, weth IT made you recognized he was supposed to win that yeah and he he was political and he got cheated yes. And so therefore was like, hey, he can really train a horse that good.

I've got a full sister to the next year, and we went four, five years and roll. And when every pleasure of charity and every single thing was, and that they were different, different, he was, he was shorter baked and SHE was a little Better charter, not why to get a open as the other map, but pretty. Also.

what do you notice about when that may had that neck on of, I just fell out like that. How much easier with shea train?

Oh, thousand percent. And he was the first one i'd ve ever had like that. yes.

I mean, I was like, oh, well, this is what we want. Well, this is what we want. Because he can do these things. These other horses could, as he was baLanced in, when he looks SHE didn't fall down our funny, and he didn't scramble with her legs.

And you want try trying to make IT do something.

He did IT naturally. And that changed my life, that that changed everything.

So for that point on, you are searching for every horse .

in a perfect world .

to look like that's .

that's how you'll pick in you. yes. Yeah, that's where we all we're talk.

Hey, this is what we want, you know? And then he came with the bad luck, and all there was in bad luck, looked a little bit like that, may I did. And so everything, I G A lot.

because I pick his brain a lot over, you know, twenty years. I knew him, and I said, doing, I said, dog, how did you get so good at picking the horses to win? How did you get so good at confirmation? He said clinton was easy.

He said, he said, in the beginning years, we were just ride and trash. We were just ride and anything that showed up and he said, he is what I did, every horse that want to class, he said, I just follow them back to the door, find where the horse store was. And he said, I come back at one o'clock in the morning when nobody was there, and I go in that horse, a stall, and i'd study how was built.

I'd watch IT walk when I took IT out the next day I get behind that, i'd watch its time legs. I'd watch out walk. He said, I just started nose and traits about these horses.

And I said, well, what was some of the traits? And he said, the first one was that would built like a sea. They would build rain.

Yeah, they stood there like this, not like this. It's the opposite of a sudden break. I know this for the next step of the giraffe. Get off that thing, yes, but for us in the western world, that's not everything that said they were built.

Rain, you, he said everything he noticed on the rain of, because when dog went from the pleasure to the rain, and he said, I started notice and all the big stop and horses had a wide walk when they'd walked down the bine oil, he said that almost looked like they were trying to pop and they just had this wide stains and he said, when I walk like that, they just grey. Yeah, just attacked the great. You know what I mean? They just watered, he said it's like they walked, he said was almost like they're king to proof.

But they won't when they just wide in the and and know is that the comforter ity within one time because we go down there and buyers, orses and partner and everything together with them and and sells. And he said to me, said, see that a horse over there. And this horse was just taking these little tiny steps with the to back legs.

He said, we want the opposite of that. He said that sound of which will never stop in a million years. We want a wide and wAlland.

Yeah, it's funny you say that because my dad and that Arthur, or they always taught me when a horse walk that if he took his hand light and walked to pass the print, very front foot left, and that horse would be a huge stopper. Ah yes, I learned that. And IT was pretty well true.

Yes, they'd overreach a little bit what. But if you watch that horse, if he steps up past for his foot left from that horse, very few, those will not be huge stoppers. Yeah so that was something that there and that's and that's what we did is you learned we had to like said there wouldn't any types or any of this, anything you had watch so straight and learn what does this cause, what does this create? That's where we all learned IT from.

I remember think, because I can get a free, soft and bridled up, and i'm good at IT. okay? But the first horse that doug bought me that was naturally hung like that was like, holy shit, this is pretty easy, like this. This is a game changer.

Way, there is a game change. I just please rains out her neck, just is there I don't have to pull on her or her neck down is just when I drop away and she's ops her neck, this tangled there so hey, that's what I want to try and imitate for the yeah the next twenty year. yes. And that's what I tried to do was found some that went like her, the closer center tell .

me so that may was a game changer in the a pleasure was a particular hole in the cutting for you. That was a game changer, or told you some very valuable lesson or something you want to share with us. Yeah, I think.

I mean, I was lucky to have a lot of really, really good horses and stuff that I think when IT come along and being around the group of gaza, and I was round, and we study and do the same things, and then when play gun come around, that horse was so strong. And so he was very sensitive. And he taught me like when I finally really went to.

went on the me, and you trained him, yes. Oh, OK, I did. I knew dig in. But I cutting back, you trained him from start.

Another guys working for dick, train him visit to your old and my body over to me, lighter and stuff. And so, but he taught me a lot about stant. And like, that horse was funny.

He had all the talent in the world. He tries hard out. But when I took my space off for take my space, that's when I went to win a truly. And how many study, and if I had have done that, I don't think we would have one as much because he was so he would try so hard that when you spring or something is almost like he took his a tiny away. And so he taught me, and I think that horse taught me a lot of things about dies and training and dies that i've Carried over and help me, because you would have .

had so much experienced in studs in the pleasure idea.

But that's what I say. He was so different, yeah. He taught me a different things and different.

And you couldn't do like he would over, brother, just like that. Na, there's not. You pick him up and I mean, he would prompt touches change to his chest. And so was you had to fight that like he was too much. You know, you had all these little corks and stuff and so he really made us think and training, but that's why he was so special because he tried so hard. Yeah and I think that horse taught me an awfully aw a lot about about horses and you couldn't just go to, I think what I did is like you don't train every horse the same, you try to, but if you don't make adjustments for each horse a little bit different, you're going to run a lot of horses. And I see a lot of horses run because guys won't they say here you're going to do IT this .

way and you just have to make those .

adjustments and most you take .

A P leg .

except yeah, but that beginning that goes back like dad and buster walls and something they would all over say, in the summer time you take you spurs off, you stays when you train them because they get mad. During the summer, time goes out and you put them spurs back on once cool weather hits and you won't run a other sources. So I mean, so lots of little different things, lots of different theories, lots of things worked. But again, I think you just have to do what works on easy.

different horse. That's very interesting. So was that never heard dad? IT, no, now I never heard that. yeah. And I love talking to you all the gentlemen because it's it's a generation of knowledge that if we don't pass IT on, we're going to get lost like i'm doing how youtube series on confirmation would dug up and how we picked them and right, putting and basically telling everybody everything he taught me about confirmation and because you've got to spread IT yeah, is dead now. But if this stuff doesn't get passed on.

it'll never go. And what do you say about wethers?

Ah with this he he wanted them up obviously he didn't like a real mutton weather of course um but know he could know a lot. The work, for example, would be a little step in the raining. They were down one hill.

A lot of them went downhill, and they could still stop for the most part. But there's always a nominees in there that change. But his big thing was, was the way they walked his hot buttons were the way they walked the front, anyone, the smaller front, the pitch front, not a big old wide front in.

He wanted that neck that just coming out from with us flat a neck you know, little things like going to with silence and just person on the bridger. They know in the stall, you know you can't look from around, but we'll like back away from that. We will tuck the heading and off and and back up step do they .

root back against yeah you know he dog was good.

He was extremely good things in the round pin like we get cults in the round pane and he said one time I was with him and um uh he said, do you hear that and I said, what he said, listen to his horses feet and I said, what do you mean he said, look at what slabs the ground, how heavy the sandwich when .

I was told that .

on that bay moral?

Yes, just it's a grand.

You can hear him. Yes, you know just the how light they are in the feed. He was another big one. Dog was especially in the passion when we go look at eels. And he would, and he had such a unique talent about him, is that everybody that I ever knew went into a past year and said, okay, tell me the ones, they're out of the maze, that I want the most money. They would want to know britain first.

He did the complete opposite when a breeden manager was, say, oh, this ones out of a man at one two hundred thousand he says, don't tell me and say what he says, i'll ask you when I want to know how they're bread, right? And when we got back in the truck, I said, do I said, how come you don't wanna know how they're bread? Because he said, that will mess with your head, yeah he said, its confirmation first, athletic ability second. And how their bread though, he said, when you find out how they are bread first, he said, some of the best bread horses in the world and the most ill built on the focus in the world.

They just are not built world and he said, don't mess with ahead this ones out of the fatty champion so your brain same it's gotto be the one but it's the most sorry put yeah the horse there race yeah you know I mean so you know, another big thing he was really big on is when we go out to a past jump, especially when those calls were chasse each other other and or just move and he said, wash the ones that can move the front end and never pick the head up above the world. Can they go left and right? And instead of lifting up and lifting over, can they go left and right? But they neck their paul will never get above their with us. They are the ones i'm looking for that can move the front .

end without pickin the necker.

He studied them as much in a pasture, right, as much as he did the ramp in. Yeah, things like he would always say, clinton, if you can, in a perfect world, go see that horse three times. If you can't, right, first time you see IT.

If you like IT, great, make notes what you like about IT, go back again. A month later, see you again. If you lock IT again, go back a third time he said, i've got ta like IT more each time and I said, why go back three times?

He said, because you miss things, your eye will get tricked and you, especially when you look a lot of horses, you'll go back the second time and you catch something you didn't catch the first time. If it's negative, he said, I might not go back again. If it's positive, come back again.

They just very great, agree, or just great agree a hundred percent. And everything you say, and that's what to say, those are things that we had to learn. Yes, through the years now, so many people have the advantage of listening to these things and seeing these things, and people have learned and studied.

And it's amazing to me today, the difference in how many great horses are, are how many great trainers are, are how many great show man. It's amazing. The difference, the knowledge.

Yes, that has been passed down since my dad's generation to this generation. Now it's unbeliever. What's out there for people learn from yeah .

what do you see the difference in the breeding of the smart little late era of of cow horses and cutting horses? What was different about those style? Or was IT strictly just a training style and the early eighties compared to, you know, they are up into a cow almost going sideways. Um was that just the breed of the horses back then? Or I was specifically trained to be up into a cow?

I think this combination of both, I mean, you didn't have as many breedin programs. So because .

you click me from wrong on learning, the more you got ta horse up into a cow, the more cow you y'll get, the flat do I get, the more the harder is .

for them to cow. Is that as a general, the flatter and when we're saying cow.

the time is the're interest, they trying to they are trying to cut IT. okay. So the flat you are basically it's hard of for that horse to give you.

The more he's going across like this, it's easier to get him to cat, was that right? One hundred percent cork. like. So what I want to know is back in the dies, especially in the smart tly days when he was dominating the britain and stuff like that in the eighties, with those horses adapt to the style to die, the train ability, their affleck ability, with they make that change somewhat.

somewhat as a general rule. No, no. But some of the exceptional horses were, yes, and there were some that just had more athletic ability than others.

Smart little lena was really smart. He was real quick. He was prety pretty well right here in a town and shaped up and stuff.

Terry rattle come around with threads playboy. He was more run, dragging, but get around like that. And so each horse was a little bit different to say.

I think it's like an athlete. Could an athlete from one hundred and eighty yeah play for the pitch burg das da today? I don't know they actually that male blunt could of course have male. There's there's few that could and stuff like that. So I think of the horse since the same.

Where do you see um the cut in horse industry going in the next ten, twenty years? What do you see any fs or in training techniques or things that are changing?

You know we talk about that and sometimes you go, how can I get any Better than he is or how can a horse do anymore? Then they're doing right now. But I think like any progress, the more you're breathing, you're breaking the best to the best.

The trainers are learn and the best become Better than what they are. And so what I see more and more is just the physicality. I think the horses, we're back to breeding a little bigger, stronger horse again.

Now we went through the smart little lina abroad, cat air, where there were little bit horses weren't quite strong enough. And I think now we've gotten back up and you're seeing a bigger, stronger horses because IT takes that a little bit to go do. The things were asking to do nowaday.

There was little horses. I mean, they're still few but don't understand, but as a general rule. So I think just the breeding ing program and being more refined and doing that, sometimes I wonder how can they do any more than they do. And right now.

but for me, the outside looking in, and I don't think this just applies to the cutting industry, I think I can ly the raining cow horse or any industry. I think the edge that the train is that are going to win moving forward are going to have to have I think the guys that have got the best helped home. Yeah yeah. When you were winning and running and gunning on those pleasure horses and you were traveling and you had joy, you had taught summers and good guys that allowed you to almost cheat a little bit as you were going so much that you could fly into a whole show. They had a broke, they had a ready.

You could step on IT. I said I could do yeah.

So I think to me, I when somebody's really don't money in winning, I like to go study who's in their bomb yeah. I like to see who their assistance are yeah. Because you're often find, in my experience, especially come from the right in world, the garbage really winning.

Go find his two year old god. Yeah, he's been there for five years. He's really get them something going on. There's a guy or girl or several people at home that are really getting their shit together to get those horses ready, that guy, and at least hand on the moth at the end of the two year old year where they broke today.

So to me, the Better help you've got at home and the, you know, pay the good help, the good money. Uh, that's an age rought day. You know what to mean you, because do you agree or disagree? This statement almost got a little sign. Yeah, i'll say that the two year old year is almost even more important three year old year. If that two year old year gets fucked up, jody, and they don't do a good job, they don't get a broke, this holds in that foundation that train to start that three year old year way behind the eight four way. He's got so much stuff to get done in a three year old year anyway, and so much pressure and stress physically and mentally now is going to go reteach half that two year old year, where that two year old year of which really done solid, really done right six days a week with a great thing. They do a lot of work to be done in that three log, but no way near the stress and walk.

That IT was IT is very, very important. And I I think it's an equal value in both that you're a hundred percent crick if that horses behind and you're trying to crash on him or do something to catch him up to some, you're beat before you get started. Now you just beat, I told the boys years and years ago that this industry is going become like a nice car team.

And I really think IT has. And that to your dew point, what you do same, you've got to have the whole team of the two year old year. That's why the two year old is the fert sales brings so much. They've been through good programs.

The guys know which ones have been trained, right? And that's why, in my opinion, the two years ago brings much money because are like, hey, here's one that's been through a program he's I can get on him and I can go on with you and that's one. The reasons of .

values are the time that's good because IT seems like the value in that two year old, yes. Would you say historically. Would you say agree with me, in fact, that i'd say historically a lot of trainers haven't put the importance on that.

Two year g i'll catch you up. And three year g when I get on in, it's almost train is put the worst hand on the Youngest is and the best hands on the older horses. I've always had the theory, do the opposite, put your best on the Youngest horses, where the .

most their.

their mind is the most valuable, right? The foundation is the most important. Put your best hands on the Youngest horses. So that doesn't get screwed up. I think .

everybody is learned that lesson. yeah. I think they see IT. I think you see IT now. Yeah, back in the older days, IT was either we wrote in ourselves or like you said, you had some kid at home right in my stuff.

And the trouble is, at some point you can only write something die. I don't understand. And the cutting world getting looking into IT, how you guys get on train when you're gone so much that you know I mean, it's like you go as a going almost six months of the year and always all shows and how you keep a bone going at home, how you keep shit run yeah.

I think a lot of you have to have that next car team back home. yes. And then lot of them will take that top three or four horses with them.

Or once it's behind a little bit, they will take them and let the good horses rest at home a little bit. I think it's everybody's interesting. I mean, it's like everybody sees the same thing going on because there's a lot of great programs out there right now.

I think this room in the raining world that like the cutting where you've got cutting guys now that is strictly making a damn good living off two year olds. That's all I do. But I don't go to whole shows.

They stay there and waterall day, and at the end of that three year old year, they hand him back off the train. And oh, by salem, I think the running will can go there and the cow holes will can go there. Because if we are getting, especially the rain, is that so many more shows now with so much more prize money that that you just can't get you two year odds broke. At least check him, be home enough to check them enough that there could be an opening there for guys to do only two trainers or cow horses and stay home, especially when you can send IT to a guy that you know not going to poach your customer, you know is not going to trying to steal for them to show they know what's going in home at the end of the year and they're on board with that.

yeah. And I think it's just now getting into that because they didn't use to have that many shows. no. And so the guides we're stay at home and right in their cells, there's just now starting the last couple of years, we have to be gone so much. And so I think that's something they're be addressing.

Yeah I think it's a very good point. Well, yeah and especially now time to dry about IT. And he said, inning, he said, it's hard to get three year old board anymore. Nobody wants to .

sound when you can.

You historically, for twenty years, when you had a good three role, you could name your Price and you get IT yeah. But now they want even name a Price. That's where they won't even put a number on. I got up and checkback give me the number they .

won't Price was horse is are too valuable. I mean it's way um with the breeding um program the embro sell in the babies breed, those mayors back the reputation to us for your born all those signs combined why would you sell IT? Yeah I mean I mean it's like because .

you want to gone through ten to fond.

they are if you sail IT, you're gonna have go through ten or twenty more to five. They're good. And there you spend all your money and your back don't need you have a horse is good. So I think it's a all part of that same program.

Their hearts and there for us, their flesh and Brown, pushed to lift us higher carious faster and stop on a dime. And when they have had a great ride, they deserve a great recovery. They deserve a cold creek.

Cold creek bows, our state of the thirty five degree, a salt water therapy proven to reduce ery speed recovery, keep them at peak performance, called creek therapeutic expose. This water is for winners. Ever wanted to own a champion, clinton Anderson, world class horse trainer and competitor, has been spotting and developing promising horses into greatness for decades now.

He is offering an exclusive ownership opportunity to create champion forces, introducing clinton Anderson's performance partnership. In this exclusive program, you and clinton will call on a top tier performance horse that will be particularly ly trained and cared for by Anderson himself. This isn't just an investment, is a first hand experience.

Enforcement ship excels with clinton held and advice. You'll choose the horse that resonates with your ambitions, and clinton takes the rains from there. From training to stabling, from the practice arena to the winner circle, clinton, on wavering dedication, ensures that your equine athlete reaches its full potential.

This partnership is about more than business. It's about a shared passion for request, an and clan. Anderson, is that just your trainer? He's your partner.

Fully invested in every horses success. Together, you'll share in the excitement, the prestige and the profits. Membership is strictly limited to ensure each investor receives personalized attention and commitment.

It's your chance to be part of an exclusive equine ownership can that combines the excitement of competition with the satisfaction of success. Don't miss your opportunity to join clinton Anderson's performance partnership, a unique collaboration that transforms dreams into equal champions. Experienced the heart of horsemanship excels. Find out more at ryan.

You seem to have a nack, jody, um for finding great help. How did you do that? Did you have especially did you have a theory that you followed where you're just a little bit plane as lucky? Like tell me how you found the great help that you had over.

It's A A lot of look and stuff too, but it's still any time you're winning, where does someone want to go to work the winner? They want to go to learn what the winners doing. yeah.

And I think that Carries onto today where there's with all the programs today in the rain, in at the cut and whatever. And I think back then, I was when I was winning in the pleasures world. So todd and troy malt nall, those guys want to come work for me and that's where I was really lucky and stuff like that.

I also think there's something you haven't mentioned that, that you might comment on. Is choice specifically told me this is that when he worked for you, you would let them go train some horses like you would would micromanage them to point with you. You just micro o manage them to death.

You let them go do some shit, let and makes some mistakes. But you were there to help them getting out of this. And that was important for Young trainers to know that they could go there. And I had to follow your program, of course, but they could go choice and stuff well.

And I think that human nature, how do humans learn? Yes, that making mistakes, right? I mean, it's pretty hard to hey, plant and go do this and you learn from IT.

If you go there and you try and you fail, or you come back, hey, this work, this did. And I think that's, i've always believed that that's the same way with humans. And where the ord, strangers or whatever, let him go try that.

Let him see. Because everybody Young and everybody wants go. Well, jodie does IT this way, but I think if I do IT this way, you know, blow, blow, well, let them go try that, you see.

And if he works like, hey, jodie, this way, oh, well, good. Maybe i'll try that. Yeah, yeah. You know. And so that's that's where all that communication company, and I don't think anybody just stand and over someone and saying, you have to do IT like this every second. I don't think humans learn like yeah and maybe i'm .

but I and the other thing that I think you had a lot of quality that bob ever had is you want you want afraid to let you go show show, you want to friday even let go beach, you can know.

And that attracted more Young available is known with bergin and and john slack and and donne brick and robby boys and and here he was because when I first came to the states in nineteen ninety seven, I won a job with a well, because he's guys will win IT yeah because he's let go show you know I mean, most also at that well, yeah i'd say most two trainers didn't don't let the help really go show and go win yeah. Whether it's insecurities, whether I just didn't have the stock form, I don't know what that is. But but you didn't seem to get you didn't seem to get threatening by that. I tell me about that.

Well, I just think that to me, if they went one IT made my program Better, yeah, you know and then we get more horse. And people come in and say, hey, tod can show one draw, can show one male, whoever they can come show these sources. Well, then you get more horses, and then that gives you chance to train.

There was horses selm make commissions, send him on. So to me and ever looked at IT like, don't know. And always looked as an opportunity for us to do Better and have a Better program. yes. And just never looked at at the .

other way yeah and ever told me the same thing. He said he said number one late, he said I can't show more. And after two, he said I wanted the customers to have five that if he wasn't good enough for me, but he was good enough for my second guy, I had fight that he could go here.

And I think that's what great about the cutting is where their intermediate classes and our limited classes and stuff, now those boys can go show and they get that show experience where fifteen years ago, we didn't have those classes in the cutting. And I think that's when the reasons the cutting, and you ve got some more than people come into IT, because people can show you, even show some the same horses to come back and show me in an immediate class.

So toy told me this, and I want to see if you agree with that. All you want have a different take on that. But he said, because I asked him a lot about you and he said, you know, jody would be often on the cotton pain, cotton by himself, and i'd be trying to pleasure over here.

And I said, well, who was turning back for jodie? He said, well, nobody. He said, jodie did a lot of IT buy mp, yeah.

And and and that intriguing because he in Frances, like he come back to, he trained ninety percent of these cuts by he would do, because he didn't have help. You know, we were all poor. He didn't have, you know, true tone back. People sit there and horses.

And so so did you train? Is IT true that you train a lot of them by yourself? The cases, yes. So was, for what reason did you do IT was a necessity. You thought I was a Better way of doing IT and tell me about that.

Well, a lot of was the city, because really enough money to hire more people who can turn back all the time. And I enjoyed working horse by myself. I enjoyed going out teaching that horse. A, watching his reactions, playing around sort of a mouse and cat time game and step.

And if I had someone turn him back from the other time, as either telling them will stop, go, move, do you something like that? And IT took a little fun in the joy out of IT. I think nowaday a little bit. You there were a little bit more advanced in that, that doing that is not quite as in now IT was.

But is that because IT doesn't work? Or that what's the negative of trying boys?

So I think the negative that is the you don't get quite as much of pattern of the left and right and cut on a horse because you're steal, but I think they're still a place for that because if you still teach a horse to walk up to a cat, got to press up you to get up the cat, and he learns when IT, he learns to read, then you can come back. And what always found was that I could go to a practice work or something in two days, put that pattern back on, and i'm ready, go show, because that works. But I think IT was a lot of as because I enjoy IT. That part of because I can see a horse react and start going, okay, which waves a cow, gonna seems, start thinking, and I love that, I love watching a horse think the interaction, yeah, between me and he and was, okay, that horse, okay, you going to think here, what is he going to think right here, you know? And I think I love that part of IT, and I think that was a bit part .

of the because when you are by yourself, you do have to step up. Nobody else is going to move IT. I sten cosine, eighty four now, and he's been retired for probable fifty years trying to Carter s and I I said, what is the negative of you trying to buy yourself, trying to to cut up he said, he said, I don't know of about a negative, but he said, one of things you have to be careful of be he said, they get so damn tight step in up to a cow because they know it's going to break all he said, they just start suck back and he said, in some ways that's good because I don't want to get out there but he said, you have to be careful that you can actually send them up. They are, and he said, they will get so dam tight that you have to be careful about.

agree hundred percent, and that's how you make a worst type. Yes, a lot of people forget that if you go to step and up, that'll teach him not to step. Because he he know when I said, just like a best melt player, if he steps up, that guys going go blind and .

so so when you were trained and a lot of them by yourself, would you just have a single calling the arena a small hood? And how .

would both to have single cap at work? Best ahead one. And i'd later go out in, later out the other side here, and then then work IT.

And then and in a school pen, round pen.

what was what I but he obviously one .

kills a lot easier to step up to about yourself. But when you had a group, and then how did you step up? Did you? Because what in would do is he just like, have four? He used to train a lot in one hundred and ten foot round paint, right? And he just have four or five over there, but he sitting about one and the head would just move around and how you did that too that's .

what you have do yeah you really because you don't have someone hold him in the bill. You did he just let the heart go. They walk and we'd work where where.

And I think that taught there was horses to to work wherever they were at. Yeah, I find the, I find the angle and stuff like that in him. But I did find that I after doing that, I got a long Better if I went and work flat for a day or two with and then also, i'm ready.

Go show. Yes yeah. Without doing that, the horses were little out of sink, not doing that. So and I think that's why the guys nowadays used to turn back.

So just going to ask, you know a question about that. Do you think the guy is now use turn back helps so much more because it's a numbers guy I can run through, you know I can welcome so much quicker. The reason I say that is like one of the at a um a reputation in australia that he could train a fatty horse quicker than anybody and and he would let him wait with a cow law. He just sit there a law and let him wait and so I always get to a rest with a cow and he said, clint, when you got somebody bump in. Cow, over time, those calls never get a chance to rest there because they are getting bumped a lot.

They on who's turned back and tell back, yes.

do you think they went to the cutting industry, went a lot more to turn back help because they could go through more numbers of horses in a day.

I think this because it's more show conditions, okay, that helps that horse get use the show conditions more? Yes, I I don't know. Yeah, you can might be work more horses that way, but I think it's more like, okay, we're here, we're here, we're here to turn back in the radio go show yeah and I think it's just that horse .

faster that yeah at what point did you start having to get more turn back help .

to help you as soon as I could see if you can afford IT or basic and then I would do the same thing. Maybe they turn back or they and I would say, wait, meet you, step over where the decide and let me dry off the all know and just went back and one .

of the things that that was cool choice said, he says, he said, he said, clinton, what jodie would do he said, I go get those pleasure houses in that big round pant and I just go pleasure train around the care of the age and he said he was great because he's trying in a kata. I'm gone around the outside of a pleasure horse, just not like call for fence and he said it's a great distraction from the horse when he looks at the kill pleasure more body mob he said he said, jody and I had the broken year old, three year old. Pleasure is in the world that have seen cali said, every other pressure is never been.

I saw the arena. It's no, that's very true. And we did a lot and IT worked great.

They really did. What did you like for pens as far as training to cut IT? Do you like round pens more? And square or rectangle? What was your theory on?

I don't think IT matters. As long as you get the right conditions to stuff aside as the sand and everything like that, a big square pain is really wonderful to teach your ourselves and travel and follow a tracked cow. The round in proba creates a little bit more action and creates a little bit more in there.

That trouble with the round pan is, is then you have to send them up sometimes and square or square him up, get a little bit. So I think there's advantage to both you have that and stuff like that. And guys, this face IT, it's still boast down to a great horse.

Yes, we can all train them. Everyone use these. Use legs. Don't use legs. Do all those things. But the reason no horse is bring million to dollars is because they are a Better, or because that horse deal makes you a great train.

Did jody not sorry. Did westly got a lot of his oundle and cutting from us? Yeah the softest and the band and that stuff ah .

here and bow and hello did that though i'd .

never spent any time around bow and I spent limited time around ways yeah but i've liked the way .

he I remember westly early. He is talking about the legs. I was thinking that I was funny because on spot is said we could do that.

And then ahead, a couple other horses he was trying to show he's like, thirteen years old, fourteen, and I making, put his hands on the horn, teach that horse to go and move and get teaching to use these legs at that point in time where you can control the horse with his legs and stuff like that. So less less get a lot of that stuff, but so is still just the athletics. Asm, you can't be .

you can't get around a .

good hole around IT still.

Yeah um if you had to go back uh joy to a twenty old jody again, i'll give yourself some advice I always ask every guessed this um what would you tell yourself if you have to give yourself a life lesson that you to change about yourself or do more or or do less of what would you tell yourself?

I'd probably tell yourself not to stress so much. I think if you get in the point to hear, you'll try to make a live and so bad and you're working so hard and stuff like that, did you get stressed? And I think if you could go back and say which that's hard to do, don't miss this because I mean, you you to you to feed a family, you have to pay bills.

He's going to do that. But if there be some way you can go back, you're in that period of time and say, okay, don't stress about IT emerge. I think that would be the one big answer that yes, I do tell .

me if you you agree or disagree with this is when I I for me, when I look at a yearly calendar, especially the fiery horse, I start hype of that. When I look at a whole year in a wall, it's like, holy shit, i'm going a lot yeah yes. And IT makes me panic because I like there's not enough easy to get this not yeah. So what I try to do is I just look at one day at a time, six days a week, six days a week, six days a week. yeah.

Do you agree or just not agree completely? If you, if you lose your focus from one day to the other, you mess up, your mess up. Now you've got to just take everything and you say we go to the congress, which is in october, made there for two weeks.

Yeah, i'd leave all my confederate horses home. Everybody is like, how the world, what are you doing? Well to me at that time, you let them fresh in up.

Yeah, you let him recoup and stuff a little MIT. Whether you can do that today or not, I don't know, because it's so advanced nowadays. It's that but yeah, I still think that a sound fresh horse improve your chances and all a lot of winning yeah. And that's where we do all the small things and all yeah different things to me.

The next big edges is healthy. Keep on on sale is two year old program who's ride to year olds. And it's also .

the keeping of saying.

tell me what your theory is on this because I really enjoyed talking and available about this. We ve got a lot of great feedback from his podcast and and he and he told me one time he said clinton, ny. Said one time the a cow holes for ity had three fatties horses and he said one man was terrible and he said two others that was pretty good and he said, I work so much on that.

One mail wrote that some bage twice a day, three times a day, whatever I had to do. And I eventually matter to the open phone. And he said, when I got to the open finals, he said, i've got enough and left.

I've got as much out of the horses I came and he said, what pissed me off is he said, I was last in the open finals on a, and the two good ones I had didn't even make the open forms and I said, why and he said, honestly, I didn't put the effort into them. Yeah, I was so focused on this one mayor getting her up. yes.

And he said, after that, I completely change my theory, is that I write the best one's first. I put all my effort into the most talented ones, and i'm still gonna be they're not talented one of the study one, but i'm not going to book two or three times amount of effort. And I know i've been guilty as a train as you're always want to bring the weak one up.

You're always want to ride that week a one more yeah, to try to catch you up. What is your what was your theory in your show career on the great ones to the bad ones? How did you handle .

always rode the great was first. Yes, i've always put that special. Then what I felt like then if I write him, I have a bad day.

I can go time up, come back couple hours and right them again. Yeah, because I knew that was the horse. I had a chance to win here and and I just always believed in doing IT that way.

Yes, we wrote all the others, but it's like that horse has the town that lets make sure that we get the most out of that horse that we possibly can. So that's what and I think that most guys nowadays still do. I think they'll start with most their Better horses .

to keep going up. So i've just been had a guilty, guilty habit of .

trying to always be, I think I can. We all do. We wanted be the same. We want .

always as a trainer.

I always wanted every horse I had to be as good as my best horse. Yes, I did everything I felt I possibly could give. But you can't do IT.

But you did this to the point where you're stealing time from the good, right? Because bad horse owner is not paying triple the training. If he ride the sandbay two or three times a day, he's not. So why take that was a great lesson that I laught, and we got a lot of great feedback.

Just I believe that one hundred percent. Because like I said, if you have a bad day or something happens and you got time to come back on again, fix, fix something that was bad, that if like if you save him for last, then you have a bad day. You have to go putting up the stall that day. So when you made .

that official change over to the cutter was at an easy transition or was at a struggle for the first two years because what i'm asking as you were kicking in the pleasure world in the top, you again yeah sure you might be open finals on your first cut. Ah, was there a three to five year period of a bit of a learning curve? You kind of stepped in pretty .

quick was IT was a learning curve and a take. What saved me yeah, in the cut in horse world was mister joe ears. I don't know him.

After I won the cut in for thirty and eighty six, he owned fracas maratha. Terry really put a program together for mr. ears.

And Terry and joe had a little bit of fall in out. And so joe called and said, hey, would you start help in train horses for me? And so therefore, I got quality horses. And jos was a wonderful, wonderful individual. And terran, our good friends, of course, and stuff too.

But that say, because I didn't have to go out and they weren't the greatest every year, they weren't the worst bit to gave me a quality horses because he had a breeding program, had good dmar. And so mr. Ayers allowed me to keep doing the pleasure horses yeah, and still have good quality cutting.

So I have a lot to mr. ears. and. I'll say again, Terry rattle and bill rate and bill for me and I will locked to the end to because they we form sort of the first team purse.

You're the red pack that cut where we all shared cows. You know, for a while everybody is cut their own cars, secret even a little bit. And we also one day say, hey, whenever we go down there, whatever cows we have, that who we're going to cut and what we're going to cut, we didn't hide cows for each other. And IT was was, I was very blessing for me to be able to be around that group of guys I never met.

Bill, bill freeman. What was, if you had the name as a horseman, what was his greatest street? I always think every horseman in the world, even people you maybe don't like, they have one secret talent.

They got one thing they just do bit of and everybody else. And I always tried to take and emmy like that, one great thing that everybody does individuals and say, i'm going to type that and really try to do as good as name. And and so I think every horses' has that one right thing. What was bills?

One great thing. He was very athletic, and he made his sources be as athletic as he was. And he was very confident Billy could be doing in every damn thing there was wrong, and think he was doing everything right.

And I love him to do. But I mean, he was confident that what he's doing was right, you know, in his athleticism showed he was just a great show, man. I mean, he could, he could ride a horse and make that horse do things in. He just his athleticism, which makes nothing. And on top for horse?

Yes, so, so what about Terry DDL?

Terry was a great trainer. Terry, he was just a great horseman in able to train and build the same. I mean, those guys do how to train horses and how to put them in position and work ethic and all.

They both come from picking cotton with their dad. Yeah, grew up with the work ethics stuff. And all those guys had a great.

great work at what did you have to spend much time?

And shortly, freeman, a little at all, completely option, if I ask IT was opposite shortly. He was always, when you say that, and would stop and see IT and wait as shortly. Yes, sorry.

Might smoke three cigarettes for cow. Ever move here? You know, in Billy, a cafe, cat had moved in two seconds.

He's going to jump. I have to write and make IT move. So they were complete opposite as far as that. But surely was sorry, I was just really quiet and waited a lot.

waited a lot funny because I when he was trying to cut horses last year before he retired, I took a carpenter australia. I did a big cut starting clinic in the middle of austria, a western horseman man covered IT. And I was with good micky I when he was a lot, and we went out.

The inferences is place for couple of days and dog set on the fence and watch the in train and he came back that naughty say, because dog walk for shortly the year, he trains the lena and he was as a two year old going and he said, I have never seen anybody that trained like shortly since since then, watching in an reminded, he just stop and was really big on two eyes on the cows and just stop and just let that, in theory, was take away the pressure in the high pressure position. So the high pressure position is the stop and about the turn. So when that horse is singing about you to get in joke or spurt on, he just let him wait there in two eyes.

And as long as they froze like that, they got their air. yeah. And he said, watching in, and greatly reminded me of watching all said that I that's what .

sure even say that millions was just the opposite yeah, he get up there and make that horse take that pressure and making face APP to IT immediately make you get in there and except IT so yeah.

what do you see cutting going in the future?

I think it's going to do nothing but growing and get bigger and Better. There's too many great horses being bad. There's too many Young trainers and people involved in IT.

Our money person are going up all the time. The value the horses is going up. I think you know, I just I don't see any reason that I won't to keep more youth, kids and show on and go on. And it's it's awesome right now. How many more you train now?

Might just three I retired? Enjoy in IT? Yes, I must give you a lot of pleasure of what your boys go show. It's the .

greatest thing and my daughter Christinia and her husband and helpless, you helpless kind of person be to have all them when the maturity and be showed in doing and great and dad's greatest dreams come true. My dad, I mean, he's still that's what .

a blessing for him.

Yesterday he gets to watch him through the internet and stuff and see all of us. So yeah, things could be much Better. That's also.

well, listen, i'm so thankful that you took the time to come out here and chat with this. I really enjoyed IT. I've heard lots of great positive stories for me for many, many years. And I wanted to meet you in person. And when roy came, he, a troy compton, came for the podcast. I said, helping get jody aon he said, all all call because I said, I want to pick this guy's brain because he's been around a long time seeing a lot of shit and i'm scared to death that the people of your generation died often and we don't know your secrets yeah no. Gave so different than .

what IT is now and stuff like that. So thank you very much for having my yes, my yes.

Today's episode was filmed and produced by inner cut productions, marketing by student associates, and organized and administrated by down on the horsemanship. If you enjoying this episode, be sure hit the subscribe button and liver rating. Follow us and stay up today on social media, including facebook, instagram, tiktok and youtube. See next time. mind. cheers.