“It’s So Easy!” Money Expert Exposes The #1 Way To Get Rich In 2025 | Codie Sanchez
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My dad works in B2B mar keting. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big row asthma. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad. My friends still laugh at me. To this day.

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I didn't have money. I wanted more of IT, and I felt like you had more money. You got to push back.

I wanted to be able to make so much that I made other of people uncomfortable. And so for that reason, I obsessed on this idea of like, how do I get more financial freedom? Probably shouldn't let me in the club at wall street.

They used to think that you had to be really smart. I had have really big ideas in order to make a lot of money. And I don't think that's true at all. Let's move fast, take a lot of risk, learn from that risk continuously. I think it's risk that makes you money, not save that makes you money.

Or does some of the misconceptions that people have about money.

the most controversial take about money these days is that it's actually good if you have if you're Young today, you have such an unfair vantage. It's never been easier to start a business. But trump economy is really good for people who have not made their money yet. If you want to make money to day with a high degree of certainty, you want to go.

Code, thank you so much for coming on the ice coffee. I really appreciated. Thanks me. yes. So for those who are not familiar with who you are, what you do, could you explain IT.

a few minutes started off on wall street, kind of consider myself a reforms journalist and investor, spent twelve years learning on big corporate floors how to invest from golden sex to state, create vanguard to finally running my own division and the country at at a company called first trust. We built up a billion dollars in assets under management firm in land america. But that all started from having really no idea about money at all.

Dad came from nothing. Bomb was a thirty year special education teacher. And the only thing I want to know for sure is that I didn't have money.

I wanted more of IT, and I felt like when you had more money, you got to push back another people more. And and I couldn't do that when I was going. Always check in the bank account, never had enough.

And so I kind of convince myself through my road that I wanted to learn not only how money works, but I wanted to be able to make so much that I made other people uncomfortable. And I think that came from, I started off as a journalist along the U. S.

Mexico border and thought was covering human trafficking and drug s. Smugglin, and I saw some pretty awful things, like what happens to Young women along the U. S.

Mexico border who come and work in the. And so I saw Young cody sanchez, and then a lot of other Young women with the last time sanchez. And I was like, what's the difference to me in them? Probably just the fact that I have more money, more so social economics than them.

Not even like that I was american. And so for that reason, I obsessed on this idea of, like, how do I get more financial freedom? They probably shouldn't let me in the club at wall street. And I just took a lot questions and notes about what they were doing until finally I got a chance to run my own business and run my own my financial firm and from there build private equity company ah in a couple of different verticals and finally went out of my own and started buying up a bunch of small businesses like it's kind of private that when you want to want you buy a business is profitable.

The business has been around for a long time, uses other money, people's money to buy IT and you keep growing, except I didn't realize you could do that individually to and so I did IT quietly on the side because I made a lot of money at the time and i'd gold in A N cuffin was too scared to leave. And so um I built up my little portfolio on this side, kind of without telling anybody and then I probably would have stayed in finance forever and always been an employee ah except I got pushed out and eventually they were like you you can do the other thing in this. We want to run the business like this. You want run IT like that if you want na run like that could do yourself and so I eventually did and then built up a media company called contrary thinking, then now gets hundred million years a month. I'll talking about this idea of what if all of us owner communities, again, what if we had a little bit more financial freedom instead of asking for permission from other people?

What does some of the misconceptions the people have about money that hold them back?

The first thing I wish I knew when I was Young about money is that other people who have there are no smarter than you. On average, they don't have famous or rich family members. Eighty percent of all millionaire are actually self made in the U.

S. Seventy nine percent of all millionaire are self made in the us. Night is not gifted to them.

You don't have to get permission to get IT, but instead, what do they really have? They've taken more risk than you have. They've move faster than you have.

They've probably failed a little bit more frequently, and they've surrounded themselves with other people who have the things that they want. And I wish I knew that when I was Younger, because I used to think that you had to be really smart. He had have really big ideas in order to make a lot of money. And I don't think that's true at all. Let's move fast, take a lot of risk, learn from that risk continuously to have any .

other controversial takes about money.

The most controversial take about money these days is that it's actually good if you have IT and that IT doesn't mean that you know you're bad from being rich and somebody else's good from not be in rich. There's no virtue signal top poverty. In fact, it's the opposite.

If you have a lot of money, typically, what does that mean? That means that you've provided a tone of value in the world. I've met a lot of billionaires I don't like, but I haven't met a single billionaire that made their own money that hasn't provided telex the value to the world that they actually have in their bank account.

And so I think these days, we get told by a lot of people that money e's bad and you shouldn't want IT. Money is the root of all evil. We all say, like a programmed.

And I think we have to go back into our programme and ask yourself, why would we be told from such a Young age that money is the root of all evil when actually it's it's a biblical say, and that's from the bible. Money is of a out of context because it's actually the desire for money is the root holy file, which is very different. That is, if you are driven to only get more money, not if you have more money to very different .

more than the idea came that like rich people are bad or evil.

what power hates push back, right? So when you're A A boss, what do you not want your employees to have? You probably not want your employees to have another job that makes them more than the one that you pay them for right now.

Why would do you want that? Because then they have optionality and they might leave you. And I think power overall does not, like rich members of society know a government overall typically wants more control.

They think that they know things Better than us. And because of that, they can assert their will more on others. They could even be from a nice perspective, like, hey, we're here to help, right? I've had all this abundant, so i'm here to help everybody else.

But I think what's actually the problem with money today and why we get push back on IT is because we humans are interesting in when we get a bunch of money and when we get a lot of power, we don't like to give IT up any of us individually and simultaneously. When our governments get a bunch of money in power, they would rather distribute IT than us have IT. And so I think IT actually comes from centralization of power, which is continue to happen over the course of history into .

where were at today. Have ever felt you had to compromise your own morals for the sake of business or making more money?

When I was Young, I definitely did a lot. I I am a little bit older. So when I was Young and finance, I mean, he was the days of, like you took people out to the strip club. You guys know all about that vague here.

M A thing to, I learned about .

IT through jack. That's not true to the .

views out there. Not true. I think I .

see the spider man. me.

It's like I about to get together. That's not sure. Not sure we don't do that. I wlink .

spend the money that .

actually tracks. But you know, back when I was Younger, that that was really what the industry did they mean. So IT was stake dinners nonstop.

You took him out to tell if you're in new york, this is an investment banker with the bottle strip clubs. Even like I was a woman, i'm not really end of that. But if you wanted to close deals, that's that's literally what happened.

Like how .

do you .

a deal? But hey, baby, signs and paper work right .

underneath whatever is going on something exactly. Well, a lot of time. What happens .

when you so what is a deal in finance? So typically, if you think about investment banking and what are you doing, you you're trying to talk somebody into trusting you to take their company public to do some transaction with them. And a lot of the ways that power happens in the U.

S, especially in the positions on high, is through like you know, traditional bonding experiences, which this is how like rich dudes and finance bond, which is like you get together, you have stick dinners, you go out and drink. It's it's not to seem like american culture has the same thing in a different way in japanese culture does. So like I used to do some deals in japan and there you're literally not allowed to turn down a drink, some instances.

And so that seems weird to us. Like why would I care if i'm gonna do a deal, especially to our generation? Like I don't want to do a business to somebody just because they kept drinking with me all night.

That makes no sense. But culturally in japan, that's a big part of IT. So no, you can't say no to a drink if you go out for a celebratory dinner that you guys close to transaction.

And I was a little bit the same in finance. IT was like, I don't trust you if you won't maybe make bad decisions with me so when I was Younger, I definitely saw crazy things. Thankfully am a woman. So like it's not like I would participate in that. But when I look back on IT know when I was Young, I just didn't know how to say, like I feel uncomfortable with that like I don't want to a go to that and I sort of felt like when I was Younger, maybe i'll get lifted out of the deal like they called the the th hole. So if you would go to the hole when you go to play goal, you guys to play off, yeah and you go to the the men's locker room or whatever.

And so the thousand nine hundred poll had a lot of connotations in finance, but IT might be like a bar or you go close a deal with a golf club and so I felt like, oh man, if i'm not the cool girl then am I going to close this or not? Um and you know I think I was one of the Youngest analysts theyd ever hired at goldmine in the division that I was in and I was definitely the only woman who is also a acta. I didn't think much of the general thing at the time, but that just was a fact.

And then when I went to first trust, I was one of the only managing well, well what was the total there? I was one of the only directors of the business we can call managing partners then. So anyway, certainly when I was Younger, I did. Now that i'm older, that's another great thing about money is you get to push back.

Do you think being a woman in finance served you or worked against you? I feel like the notion these days is that if you're a part of, like a quote, unquote marginalized community in some capacity, that you'll always be having to work a lot harder to get ahead. But to stay on power, how how was your experience with that?

I think if you call yourself a victim, you're much more likely to be on. And so I never felt like I was victimized by being a woman. I think when you look different, there's a huge opportunity there too, and was really how you want to see the world, you want to see the for you are against you.

So for me, there was never a world in which I thought, hey, I think men have IT easier than me. If anything, I was like, what i'm more remember able, like you're gona remember this one sort of loud let tina is in the mix maybe um but these days that's not that popular of a thing to say. And um you know there's a lot of stuff that happened back then in finance that I don't think is the case anymore like generationally, my best mentors of all time have been men.

You know every almost everybody that's ever given me a job in my career was was a dude and every single one who helped me get promoted, I think except two were men and so the women were actually really tough. And finance, we are tough on each other. I think they call IT like the token effect, which is essentially if there's only a small group of people, sometimes they can bat against each other.

And so, you know, you guys have all met. Have you ever met like a woman who's been in business for a long time and when you meet her, he was okay. Yeah, you know what's going on this? And it's almost like overly aggressive.

That was a lot of that going on in finance. So I had to shake that off a little bit and remember, like you can be a woman, you can be a do, you could be gay, you can be whatever. And just, you know, do you? And for the most part, nobody cares if you're good, competent. Cy kills, just about any identity has ever .

been a time now where you felt like that has held you back.

Now the only time I tell me back is when I let IT. So if if I in my head said, hey, you know, for some reason or another they're going to give me this deal because it's just for the dude or whatever when you tell the universe something, I think that usually listens. And so you've got to be careful what you project out into the world.

And especially as a Young person, I did that often. Now I remember like, do you know I got my, I got my ice slapped when I was Younger. I didn't like that.

And I think that probably that happens to men in different ways too. But you guys are physically bigger. So.

you know, I speak for your song. 对， that's true. I .

try to.

Sp, slap is. But all the time we can do my bag.

just do that.

You just like i'll take IT if you like IT. This podcast is really going downhill now. Yeah um yeah but no, I don't think so.

The only time I um you know struggled in in when I was in a corporate setting was like I was mostly my fault. Like i'm kind of unemployable. You know I think a lot of entrepreneurs are like, were super abstinent.

I wanted things my way. I was super aggressive. I thought we weren't moving fast enough. And like I remember one mentor who now was a friend of mind, but back then I was really added him, was A C E O of the company that I was running a big division for.

And I thought we should use the internet like I was like, here is my idea. I think that in the future, we will sell investment products entirely online. You won't go to stake dinners, you won't meet with people face to face.

We could do literally all of this remote. And that was kind of crazy, like ten years ago. And he said, it's never going to happen.

We don't want to run the business that way. And he basically got to annoy with me that eventually he was like, listen, you want to go left. I want to go right is my boat.

Like you're going to be on my boat. Then you need to to roll the same direction that I am. And so I finally kinda pushed out of of the company, and he did me a huge favor because if he hadn't done that to me, I probably to stay in there forever.

Being an adult has a tight poins. You can eat ice cream for dinner, you can play video games, whatever you want, and you can even eat ice cream while playing video games. But sadly, it's not all fun.

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A Z O C D O C dog com flash iced dog dog dog com flash ice to doing down below in the description. Thank you so much dog dog for sponsoring today's episode. And now let's get back to the podcast. In speaking of millennial, have you noticed a difference between the mindset of being a millennial jensie? Or like janice boomer, have you seen that like maybe one generations little Better than the other or more motivated, less lazy, less entitled?

If you're Young today, you have such an unfair advantage, which is it's never been easier to start a business. One problem is, though, it's never been harder to have a profitable business. And so it's actually fascinated when you look at the data, we've had more businesses created since twenty, twenty then we have for fifteen years prior.

And that's as determined by like L, C. And corporate tie structures. And but but with fascinating is simultaneously we know that Young people thirty thirty years old, on average, are making lessen their parents for the first time ever.

So we're creating more businesses than ever, but we're making less money than our parents did at any time. And so I think you have an incredible opportunity to start something. But what's really hard is to actually make IT profitable.

The thing between the generations that i'm really curious about is how can we have those two groups actually be each other solution? So we've talked about this before a little bit, but you know, if baby boomer's own is got sixty percent of all businesses, and eighty percent of businesses owned for more than ten years by baby boomers are profitable, as opposed to Young people who start businesses today, ninety percent of them fail, thus are unprofitable. What seems like Young people want to to start businesses, but they don't know how to make them money.

Old people know how to have businesses that continue to make money. How do we pair them up as opposed to beat them against each other? And I think bombers in many ways, think that Young people already at Young people in many ways, think bombers are out of touch. And actually they might be the solution to each other's problem if they actually looked at the data and thought unemotionally about where the profits.

any other controversial truth about money.

learned along the way. Well, I only you can spell rich without risk. And so if you look at our generation, we're on average to taking more a less risk than any other generation previously as evidence by the amount we have sex, how fast we get married, uh, the amount of risk we can take with risky behaviors like like drinking or smoking.

And I actually think that bleeds into risk that we take in our businesses to like we might start a small at sea store on the side. But we're never going to take a big risk with a business ah in the same degree that you know the generation right before us. I did.

And so I kind of want to push back on something that Young people seem to think is a good idea today, which is like playing the super safe. Uh, IT looks like on average, you know, wages don't beat inflation. Now we have wages stagnation of three to four percent per year.

We have inflation rates double that in some specific instances and depending on how you measure IT. So if you don't take more risk, you stay with your job, you lose money year over year. And so I think we have to take more risk today in our generation. And that is not something that I was taught. I don't know if you distribute with me on that one where the other, but I think it's risk that makes you money, not save that makes you money .

yeah for the most part, I agree with that. What are you thoughts of buying starbucks?

I hate starbucks. I hate everything about starbucks. So I would say don't buy starbucks because there are corporate behemoth that lost .

all soul in every way they .

perform at any time you here to shit on all the spiced ladies. I think, I think starbucks is like a perfect example of what's wrong with society today, which is we had a corner coffee shop that are boris and your name, they wrote IT down correctly. We may be knew the owner.

We have walked in their multiple times. The places clean on the outside. IT felt like a third place that was starbuck original idea before. And now you walk into a starbucks. And I mean, have you guys been in one lately though?

Just like, ack, it's only three fifty two for a vente coffee. OK how much was to say .

no to that value? Um you you have principles and morals for small business.

So you're tell me me to skip out on the bahama and go to the small business.

Yeah and I don't think that you have a uh, Price differential. I bet the small business actually as super parable Prices, if not even slightly less because you don't have brand awareness so they can charge you more because their brand is more well known. I I last year, I went to a local coffee shop and loved that was like .

motorcycles and depends ve star box there everywhere is no guarantee .

est coffee shop to my house o starbuck.

yeah I mean, that make sense. I just don't think you're going to get rich by saving from from buying starbucks that I know we difference on. But I also think that starbucks is a perfect example of like how we lost the soul of mainstream. And everything that we're pushing .

back again is IT matter if lose, if if consumers get, let's to say, superior product or the same products at a lower Price, something like walmart coming in and yeah, they ruin the small business, is by you're able to get all these items like fifty percent less than IT would cost you someone else.

Well, I think walmart has is an interesting model because walmart model is Price return to users, right? That is like this is literally a low cost offering. That is what walmart lives and dice by.

And I have a lot of respect for sam walton, his books incredible if you haven't haven't read him biography. But um that's different than starbucks because what happens with most others, I mean, we see IT right now with Prices across industry. Netflix takes over a huge market chair.

They lower costs for a period and then what do they do? They eventually increase cost because we need to have increased margin because we have public companies because we have quarterly results. And so yeah, if all starbucks did was continued to lower Prices across the board, maybe that would be good.

And you would know that you are choosing the low cost option. But I I think that's a policy that that issue what happens uh what happens is brand becomes known and then, uh, they end up increase in their margin, which is what you've seen at starbucks. And then eventually, you get a inferior or product because IT is hard, I think, on scale at large to continue to serve customers as well.

That is true. They do sell their brand and relatively speaking, their coffee isn't that inexpensive. Like you know three and half dollars for just coffee is is pretty, pretty wild. What do you think about those companies like irwin? Those are like crazy expensive grocery stores that you buy a water and like nine dollar .

mean serves a product um and a customer segment certainly. But I mean I think we have a friend collie, who wants a company called sunlight gani s which is a smoothly shop. There is something called a million dollars move movie that I think is a forty seven doors thy just like but is having gold I don't .

actually know what what is in and i've never .

bought that movie but I try okay.

he wants to be ridge and a spend OK okay I get IT yeah I mean I am fine with people serving a market but um and and like arrow one's market is this you people go there for what the hailey bieber smoothly and good for them and if he can make something that expensive, that amazing, it's probably not going to be I would I buy actually tiner gets mad at me all the time because I come on a show like this.

They're like, tell me what you like to spend your money on and my answers always like, I hire more people and buy more laundry mats you know, like that is so uninteresting to Young people today, you know, they're like, where is the car? You're good. You're a car guy.

You show that online. I'm not that interesting because I think the most interesting thing thing to spend your money on is like impact. Where could I grow the next thing and leave a little bit of legacy with like the businesses we have, the people that we hire? I wish I liked to fancy. I guess I have an I have swatch and enough .

that for the average view out there, where does the opportunity lie in twenty five and also any predictions the trump .

economy one um were already seen what what's going to happen with somebody in office who has pro markets overall. I think what you're going to see is probably a massive resurgence. Um so we're already seen the stock mark go to all time highs.

I don't know fatal continue, but I do think decreased regulation, which trump has historically done over time, decreased taxation, which he has historical down over time, leads to big bombing growth. My prediction is the economy looks really nice in four years. Now there's a worldwide pendell c again, always like black swan isometric events.

But for me, this is really good, especially for for people. I mean, you could not like the guy, but a trump economy is really good for people who have not made their money yet, because IT is going to make IT easier to do business. I mean, for instance, if you do, if you want to a brade hair and lousianner, you have to have a license, that is a multiyear license to get in order to do brade hair. And IT costs five figures. why?

Because the .

government loves to layer things on top of industry in order to preserve safety. So you're always at a you have this dynamic with any industry of how do we prefer to preserve the safety of users versus the freedom of use?

Is the danger with brading hair, I understand.

might also be industry in comments. So so you might say, I mean, california's perfect example, fifty thousand dollars on average over a multi year period to become certified in her styling and cutting, you have to go to a multiple three year school in order to do IT. And if you want to add on these additional things, that's where you get up to fifty k fifteen k on the low.

And why do I need a beautiful license in order for somebody to cut or style on my hair? Why do I need to be certified by the state of california? That makes absolute sense. What s and all IT doesn't give the government or power, and I don't mean like a big government, even like regional government and certifiers. And and so we have that across this country in a way that we don't even get to see on a daily basis, but that increases the Prices for everything, things that we have on a data basis. So we want to pull back those regulations, and that's where we start to have more of a free economy, especially for those who are brand new.

Yes, truck ever going to do that though, and get them to like the hair in the stream like listen, you don't need to go through like in a ti grand with the student landed to cut hair I think like that seems really common sense to me to get rid of a lot or at least bring IT down yeah well.

I mean, I can say, you know, we're talking with members of the administration right now about the small business association and what we should be doing different for small business today. And so there are dian talks about this and it's something i'm really passionately I would think about this for a second.

You guys, if we have right now in the us, in the next five years, eleven million small businesses for sale OK, and those small businesses, on average, only one at a tend cells inside of a year. We have a huge supply and demand imbaLance with small businesses. Most of these small businesses are like jobs, not even like full businesses, right? But there's still transferable.

There's a client list, there's revenue, there's profit, there might be a least outstanding, okay? Banks won't lend on most of these ten million dollars. So if somebody wants to buy these businesses, what has to happen? You have to get the cell er to agree to seller financing to finance the business for you.

Okay, maybe you could do that. Sixty person of all business is sold. Have some aspect of that. But in my mind, what i'm talking to the S B A about right now, I was like, why don't we create a policy where if a baby boomer cells, their small business, to a person under forty, let's say, the segment of the population that is making the least money, that's the angriest, that has the most wage stagnation, they get a tax cut, and so does the the baby boomer.

Why don't we like incentives, the transfer of of wealth between the two generations? So IT won't be trump on high that cares about harbin in, but if his entire series of advisers, they have four thousand positions they have to fill, which is what happens when one administration transitions from the next. About two hundred of them are what we'd call material that then run down the rest of the administration. And so I think if they put business people in those positions, typically business people do not want to seem more regulation. They want less.

Do you think there's any downsides to a trop economy? Do you see any risks maybe with their offs.

for example? Sure know everything has in in economic thing has second and third or effects, right? So you have an idea that sounds good. And then if you're smart politician, you have to look at like what's going to happen in the second and third wave of that iteration. So for instance, and same for this, go in my cake.

It's probably not necessary for us to put people in jail if they still ninety nine dollars worth of stuff, or nine hundred ninety nine dollars with of stuff that fill up the prisons. These people are career criminals. Maybe they made a bad mistake.

You go. That seems reasonable. That seems reasonable to me. Your second order effect is, well, now we have an increase in that type of crime, right? Because there's no insana I do not do at what's your third or r effect, well, because there's an increase in that sort of crime, then actually businesses can't function anymore.

Once businesses can't function anymore because they are not profitable, what do they do? They pull out of that induction. What's the effect of that? Well, then we actually don't have enough jobs in that industry.

So what have done? We've actually created more people that now have to steal in order to survive. And so we've created this vicious cycle. So I think you're right. Any administration has to look at their policies. And o is the thing that I am going to change net, net so positive potentially that the second, third order affects are going to be Better than doing nothing because often nothing is Better than doing more.

What do you think a real effects of having A A difference in, you know, a new president or new congress and stuff like that doesn't actually affect the average person?

Life, I think that no president has ever coming to save you, but a president can really hurt you. And so net net, a president will not make you rich. That's up to you, unfortunately.

But you know, unlike people who have never lived in a third world country and done business, there I have. I was an argentina doing business when Christina fernando, the president of argentina, was in charge. SHE nationalized almost all industries.

I had a friend who had A B M W import export company that they made a him nationalized business. Bmw would no longer transport into the country because his business was nationalized, and they made him turn into a coffee producing company. And this coffee producing company failed.

Obviously, the guy had no idea how to run this business, so they had taken over his business than they had Mandated production, than the eventually failed politicians can definitely hurt you. This is, I mean, I had a business in money market funds. So back in the day, like two thousand eight, if people don't remember, there used to be something called stable nav, which basically meant your money market fund wouldn't move from the Price that I had listed at.

And you might be like, what is this technical nonsense that matters? Not at all. Well, the government changed to stabled v. They made IT variable, so moved with the market.

And because of that, the eviscerated an industry, had to have the whole insurance industry redo how they Price things, and also had to reduce the whole pension industry because they have Mandara risk levels. And so I think in l, you've ve had the government reach into your pocket book and pull the whole thing out. You cannot understand real rips because you've probably played at a level that's not that big yet.

But in dust, there's really too risk. You have to be super careful about in business when you are Young and starting its execution risk. And eventually, it's called it's called asem tric risk.

Whether there a risk so big that I can put you out of business with one stroke, regardless of how good you are? Most entrepreneurs s if they've never built a multibillion dollar business, they don't know how to think about asem tric risk. But that's all over the place.

I mean, we don't have IT right now on youtube, but we theoretically ally could like media back in the day, was was governed by an agency that could put gram stuffs out of business. If you did something inappropriate on the air, you would have the government say you can do that again. Your business is done.

I don't care how many views you have. I don't care what you're doing. This is this is public broadcasting and you can't actually do that. And so I disagree with alex and that vain I think for most Normal people um the the president cannot make you richer but IT can certainly hurt ill and the dad just proves so really .

great pots do you feel like there is a harm in the hustle culture lately when people are like looking at that thing are all i'm going to take matters in my own hands and just work non stop.

When you're Young, you should have the expectation of having to work harder than you want to for longer than you want to doing things you don't want to do. You can either delay a pain or you can front t load IT. And I think when you're Young, you have a really high ability to tolerate pain.

You can tolerate work pain, both acute. So like an incident, gosh is really hard. I don't know how to do this thing and enduring pain.

I'm doing this for a long time. It's really sucks at superman's tana. I hate what I do every single day. You can tolerate what that when you're Young, you don't really sucks when you have to do that when you're fifty.

And so I do think hustle culture for all life is not necessary, but I would rather I air r on the side of telling somebody, hey, it's going to suck when you're Young, you're not going to like your job. You're going to wake up each morning and think, I I went to university for this for a period and if you expect that but you keep learning and growing and earn in more, it'll be worth IT. Um the only thing that I don't agree with with some of the house hustle born stuff is that you have to sleep on a couch and go all in and go after one thing when you're Young.

I don't actually think you should do that. You don't know how to recognize your one thing yet. A cover you're going to be able to determine is this a really good game or not when you don't have enough at bats like you don't even know what sport are good at.

So I think it's perfectly located. Diversify your risk when you're Young and not to focus on the one thing once you're stud and you know what you're doing and you've all proved in yourself, go hard when you find the thing that you are unique, ely, skilled to do. But that is my biggest problem with hospitality today is like go out and do or die, is like you can't recognize opportunity yet and your opportunity will always be limited by the amount h you are able to see that.

And what are your recommendation for people that don't want to be an entrepreneur and they just want to work w two jobs? Like how would they go about becoming richer, wealthy?

First of all, if anybody ever tells you that you're less than because your w 2， that's ridiculous. I mean, Sherry sandberg makes more money than all of us combined, and she's been an employee her entire career. So anybody who said has been an entrepreneur, r founder is Better.

That's not true. It's just if it's if you are unemployable to the point at which you cannot listen to somebody else and work within a corporate culture, go be an entrepreneur. But if not, it's really hard starting something from scratch. Being the ten percent that wins is bar and not everybodys meant to do IT and you don't have to do IT. But what I do think is true as you got ta get some skin the game in equity.

And so for me, that might mean that you go when you work for companies until you become so valuable that that company need you and wants to assign you equity distribution ing equity upside IT might be going from a cost center in a business like compliance, let's say, to saying I also want to to understand how the business makes money, can get some sort of commissions so that I have upside for every dime that I work, and then taking my cash investment in things continuously. This is not that sexy anymore because people want to say, go to the new A, I start up. But to be fair, I don't think that that's necessary overall.

I I hope that one day you struggle under the mental of being in charge. I think that's good for humanity and good for your your resiliency. But I don't think that you have to if that's not something that .

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do you think A I overhyped like be a little ahead of ourselves? I think you .

have a higher likelihood of fAiling in the A I sector. Then you do in a longer matter car wash. I think if you wanted to actually make money today and you wanted to do with a high degree of likelihood of winning, you'd be Better off running a boring business, running a landscaping company, running a company and going and trying to jump into A I.

I think that most people would utilize A I. In some former fashion, there will be one percent of companies that make a ton of money. I mean, think about how is A I really that different in its infancy from, like what happened with you internet companies back in the day, from what happened with social networking companies in tech?

You typically do not have a big distribution of wealth. You have few who win really big and everybody else basically losses its venture capital. Ten companies one wins. And so um I don't think it's over hyped and that you will change the way we work forever.

But if you're thinking about me personally, should I jump into the A I train? Because first I was cyp to and then I was web three and now I am A I. I think you're likelihood not making a lot of money is way higher than you think.

So what do you think the bigger opportunities, twenty five, we're mentioning, taking over businesses and seen .

as a lot of winter? Yeah, well, here's what I know. I like to look at the data, and i'd like to try to look forward in the future. If you want to make money two day with a high degree of certainty, you want to go where other people have made money with a high degree of certainty and a big luck surface area. So I could think about IT like this.

If you go right now and you want to make money as an artist making music, what do we know for sure? Well, we know that less than one percent of artists can survive on the money that they make, both turn and spotify. So if you become an artist, you Better hit the top one percent, otherwise or not, make a much money.

We know, however, that if you dedicate your life to, lets say, finance, well, pretty much everybody that's in finance is sustaining their entire livelihood of of finance. So you probably have like a ninety percent success rate to make the type of money you need if you're in the finance industry. So what does that tell me? I go, okay, why? I'm not the smartest person out there.

So I basically want to be where the game is to play um for me, that's forest on on small businesses. I think there's a big wave happening here. If you look at japan, basically, japan is like ten to fifteen years ahead of us.

Japan's economic industry association has basically said we have to grant to our populist the ability for them to buy small businesses using government funds, because if we don't, so many small businesses are closing for zero dollars, we will lose one out of every tender ops in japan. So the japanese government right now is giving away money for people to buy small, profitable businesses. Just wild for think about I think in the U.

S. We're not that far away from that. And I don't think we realized that, you know, sixty five percent of all jobs are held by small businesses, that most small businesses that exist have to be profitable because they have no adventure back in.

They're not able to get loans. And so for me, I think you're crazy. If you want to make money, don't confuse IT with passion on front, like make the money first, and then you can add your passion on top of IT by the podcast production studio.

Don't start with a youtube channel on and the podcast. It's hard to make money that way. And then after you have money from the podcast production, doing the boring things, rather people layer on the sexy things.

So the best opportunity for me in twenty twenty five is look at where all the opportunity is for you. Allege verge. Somebody else is ten thousand hours and you get to steal IT.

I think of this first second i'm talking to do the other day. His name's adam. He's going to buy a small business from his former boss.

So he worked this company. The company has been around twenty years. It's a construction company. He's going to use the future profits of the business to buy the business. And the business took this guy twenty years to build up. It's a few million dollars in revenue, and he gets to steal his twenty years by buying and buying the business through future profits. And so I am like screaming about this slightly because I think if we don't do this, then these small businesses close, private equity market share grows, and we're surrounded by starbuck, and you guys know how feel about that.

So why can't they just sell the business to put IT on the market and get like a really high multiple? Why would they sell IT to an individual at that point?

Its supply and demand, we don't have that many people who know how to buy businesses, and thus, they don't have a lot of buyers. So one, buyers and sellers both don't know how to buy businesses. I can think about IT for you guys.

Before some of us started talking about this on the internet, I think I was in finance. You are in finance like I didn't know that I just personally could go buy a business that just sounds kind of like alex and like I need to have millions of dollars to do IT. And IT also makes me think, why would somebody sell me a small business that's profitable the day? Why wouldn't run IT forever? And the first thing I always tell people, unlike you guys, are a perfect example.

You guys own a few businesses. Is there any point in time or if I said you, hey, can I buy your business at the right Price and the right terms? Would you guys say no, even like, of course, there's a Price in the in terms to buy my business.

Every single small business owners has the right Price and the right terms, what I call the wrong tuesday. Like you get a business owner on the line on the day that they don't want to run their business anymore, you've got a business. And so um that's why the second reason is because most small businesses are not financial.

So if you think about IT, how many times you begun gone to like a dry cleaners or maybe you've gone talk your landscaper and you like slip on a vmu or you give him some cash they've got like the pad in front of you, what does that mean? Every single time means the money he is not tracked, so a bank will not back that business. Then I get internet checks where you can API check every single dollars spent.

And so because of that, they don't have people sitting around that can say, OK, I can pay a couple hundred thousand dollars for the dry cleaners out of pocket. And the bank says, are not funding that. So what do we have to do? Instead, we got to go back to what we used to do, which is, you know, back in the day when we had small businesses, you were a black smith.

Or, you know, if you had a construction company, what did you do when you were done when you wanted to retire or on that day passed on to the next generation, brought on the prentice, if IT wasn't your family member, that a prentice eventually took over the business. We got rid of that because we inserted corporation and we inserted institutions and we ended up having in a corporate structure that we could buy and sell. But that's actually pretty new. So I think we have to go back to the way that we used to run some of these businesses.

How do you find them? How do you know what's a profitable business and what's actually good to run? Yeah, this seems like at that point i've seen with a lot of franchi is easy. You just like buy yourself a job, but it's not that good.

I think was the most important part we call at the perfect fit business. So the biggest miss no more and buying businesses is that there's a good or a bad business. There's really not it's like what's good or bad for you. So if I embrace and you out of college and I don't have any money, but I want to make like thirty K A year, and I want to work for myself and I want to learn how to buy and run a business I might want to buy long term, that only makes me thirty k year that I can use financing somebody else because i'm gona learn how to do IT live.

Is that a bad business? Or is that a right business for somebody si multi evensen? The ones that we always see on, you know, on twitter or somewhere out publicly is like, I want a million dollar year business that makes three million dollars eba, and I want the cellar to pay me to buy that business.

That's going to be hard. You're gna have a lot of competition, but know the average salary in the U. S. Is like sixty seven thousand dollars year. I think on the internet we get a little disconnected from like most people want to live the unicorn type of life, which is like I want to go to my kids practice.

I, anna, be able to make enough money where I get to do my two week vacation, I get to own my house, I get to have my own employees um and I don't have to work for somebody else. And so I think you have to like Normalize what is good too. And then if you want to buy a business and you want to do IT in three steps, here's how I would do IT.

One, there's on market deals. We bought a company called bisco. So you can go to like this dot com.

You can search for small businesses to buy just like you could. Zero, right, were real estate twenty years behind and buying businesses. Second way is off market deals.

So you go around to your local neighbor od, and you get to know somebody, owners. And every time you walk into a story, you say, like a, this is a great place. You run this place amazing.

Tell me about that. Have you ever thought about transition this business, who's gonna IT your kid was going to happen. And the third way to buy businesses is the people that are our dinner sphere. We call this the center of influence strategy.

So that's like my dad's buddy a is older and talking about retiring and I ran into him the other day and i've always really liked him and he's always kind of seen me like a son, how to go work for him a little bit. And then maybe I could talk him into eventually selling the small business to me. So those are three ways I would buy a business without having to go be really sophisticated.

Are there any businesses that you would not recommend people get into that there was .

bad if you were gonna a small business. What's the worst small business you could buy, one that doesn't make any money. So a nonprofit business, which is like what I call hops and dreams, not profits and reality, a business that is a turnaround like, oh, there's all this stuff got wrong in this business.

I'm going to be the one to fix IT. That's really hard. I would never do that.

And the third thing that's really bad with businesses, if you're do IT for the very first time, is the business that seems really cool and complex. Complexity makes you look smart. Simplicity makes you money.

And so when you're buying a small business, I stay away from a business like restaurants. Restaurants are really hard businesses because they have a lot of complexity to them. You have assets that degrade almost instantly OK food.

Um you have a huge red market or a red ocean is supposed to blow. You have lots of competition. Uh, the second type of business I really don't like that.

I ve been thinking about a lot lately and especially right now is retail. So I don't want to compete which of BIOS. I don't want to compete with e commerce in person.

Retails are really tough business. Most retail that wins. They're just they are they are an expensive billboard.

They lose money and they try to get you to buy stuff online. People don't realize that. And then the third business that I really don't like, uh, is our hotels.

Hotels, I think our real estate master, ating, as a business, this is often true even for arbi ambase for incident. And we saw that we've seen how urban peace used to make people out of money and happened. And I sort of said that for a while, and IT wasn't very popular to say, but hotels actually run on negative margin, which is weird.

So like hotels, if you look at the baLance eet, they lose money every year. The only way that they make money is through a fancy tax process that allows them to depreciate a bunch of x assets, are not pay taxes. So they're one of the only businesses that like net net loses money without taxes.

Do you think real estate is a business or no.

I think real status is a great way to lower your taxes and preserve wealth. I think it's an awful way for you to actually make money, truly pieces people off on the internet. But IT seems to be too.

I play this game with me for a second. alright. You get two options. Option one, you can go buy a single family home for four hundred thousand dollars. The average Price for a single family home in the us.

You take four hundred thousand dollars worth of risk and then you run IT out to somebody or the average rent net. Uh next you profit wise about one hundred and sixty seven dollars a month. So you're taking a four hundred thousand dollars sk for like a couple hundred box a month in profit.

Then you take the average small business, the average business, maybe you could buy same way you could before buying a small a piece of real state of four hundred thousand dollar business, you put some money down and get the rest from the S. P. R.

Seller financing. And the average small business makes, let's be conservative and say, ten to fifteen percent per year. You're still cash all in tens of thousands of dollars. And if you're good, you're probably increasing profit margin where you could begin in one hundred thousand dollars plus from a business instead .

of a piece work in the real state. What you're doing a lot of the work yourself. That's the difference I see .

between the totally true. But what's the risk? I think that's where people go wrong. We've sort of started to associate work as bad, and we don't think of the risk.

I think the risk with real estate is actually way bigger than we think, which is this big asset that you have overhead. And theoretically, maybe it's less work, but you've also got to find a renter. You've also have no ability to the increase the upside value of the property materially. You know most real state increases by what four to, if you're really good, ten or thirteen percent per year.

you could buy a fix a of work and you would .

still be only netting a couple hundred dollars for months on average. So I think you're right. It's way more work to run a business even if you have an Operator. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

But the risk return ratio is actually higher for businesses as my argument, especially if you're Young like what do you have to lose with your first time going after a small business this way? And and this is really not popular to say, but bill parking is a dear friend of mine who was the author of of die was zero, and obviously he has a lot of money now. But he said something to me that I was like, ck, that's so true.

He's like, if you are in the U. S. Today, for most of us, especially if you've probably listening to this, you have near zero risk. The likely od of you being homeless and starving is actually quite low for most of the us. That's just not going to be the case.

If that is true for you, which is true for all of us, that means our only risk is ego risk, which is real, which is we don't want to have a relative disconnect from where we think we are today versus our peers. So we're not willing to take a risk on a business because what if we fail and we lose this nice house and podcast studio, and we've gotta go be a waiter, right? Our risk is eager based.

And if we think that way, then we should actually be taken as much risk, smart risk, strategic risk, learning risk, as we can when we're Young. Because the older we get, then IT is material, then you have kids, then you have a house, then you have car payments and maybe you can take care of them. But when you're Young men, I wish I had taken more risk or early on, and I didn't.

What would you says? The biggest failure you've ever had.

I, I mean, I have failed miserably of businesses. So I mean, I lost i'll see one one in one business we last. I lost twelve million dollars in a business .

transaction fraud.

Um the biggest issue with doing big deals is not topic. When you're at that level, you're probably not going to do a deal really poorly um if you'd one a lot of private equity deals in order to lose that much money fast. But and that deal know we got to fraud IT and you somebody to stow a bunch of money moved out of the country um to dubai, couldn't get access to the to the assets, had fudged their baLance sheet.

Like those are real risks that happen in business, which is why I think you should diversify your risk. So all twelve million of that wasn't mine. Thankfully, we had a few investors and we ended up recoup sum of ed and growing the company back. And so everybody was fine at the end. But if I mean, I didn't sleep for weeks without transaction, had to find out somebody .

in the night I done differently.

There's russian prover, which is trust, but verify. I think the biggest mistakes i've ever made are never house, but whose and that's the same for life. You're always it's always going to be a human that you trusted that you shouldn't have as opposed to an action that you talk that you shouldn't have, almost always in deals.

And so my dad is a great line, which you can do a good deal with a bad guy. And in that instance, we now have a rule, which is we don't do new deals with people that we haven't known for a year where they're a partner in the deal, where they have assets to grab the money. And I think almost every entrepreneur i've met has had not just one but like multiple sol ranchin failures. And i'm not sure you can become really successful without a few .

of them yeah but in the trust but verify they're faking documents even if you know them for a year and like completely forging things, how would you even .

discover something like that time actually dies a lot like there's a neighbor friend who is X, C, I, A. And he said something fascinating to me. He's like, here's how we determine off and who is lying to us or not.

It's duration and touch point. So the longer you are with somebody, the more likely you are to see what the slip is. First thing in the morning, somebody comes in your office to interview.

They've had coffee. There are button up. They're ready to go. Anybody could could fake me out in an interview, probably in the morning, but if I stayed with them all day long, continuously, at dinner, after drinks, after a really long gilling day, i'm gonna start to see a little bit of who they are.

More often there is going to be a red flag when they talk to a server. There is going to be them maybe executing something in a way that I don't think that matches something they told me earlier. And if you can do that multiple times with people, you're just going to see their true colors.

And so that's why I think it's often really important. Sam zell had a famous lion. He basically has this idea.

Sam zl was a famous real estate investor, multi billionaires. He said one of the best things he ever did to do deals was he's like, hey, i'm worth enough. Anybody will come to me to do a deal, and I never do that.

I spent thousands of hours per year on my plane flying out to people individually. why? Because it's a much harder to fake me out on your home turf.

I want to actually touch and see and feel what you have going on in your scenario. And I think that's very true. If you know just by being in your house today and being in the study, I can tell what about you as an individual.

I could see over time, let's see, small things matter to you, aesthetic things matter to you. You know, you know how to grow something and keep IT alive for an extended period. You have, you have a memory for numbers, fifty dollars and growing to climb all the way to four hundred dollars if you grow for x amount of time. You know a pretty high recall on the things that are interesting for you, such as like photosynthesis to a clam, is how they actually grow, right? So just from he's really .

I three clums, there's a thing there. Is that a weird parallels?

So you would think you wouldn't eat to think you like, but you know so moral the story, get in touch with the human and that's how you don't let them fool you very often. It's the same thing with day in like in the beginning you could pretend to be anybody, but if you spend more and more time with somebody, the more tired they get, the more run down they get, the more life hits them in the face. You're going to see who you're actually .

so what are you tell us if someone's lying to you?

Yeah well the first tell is um my data was said, tell the truth is easier to remember and so you'll start to notice discrepancy. So like for instance, with this guy, he had mentioned somebody that worked for him a few times but he had used two different names, miles, because he had two people in that position that were built, his mistresses, which was a funny, funny story.

So I remember being like, a, why is I thought you said I was Sally? No, it's kind of what the other night was, mary beth, or something. And so there was like one little discrepancy.

So I just kind of like write those down. Some people could be bad at numbers or names. I'm really bad with dates. I can never a number like was IT know two thousand and ten, two thousand and eleven and I can't really remember that um so that's first.

The second thing is um typically when people lie to you, they don't like you or respect you and so passive aggressive, uh, comments are really good indicator for are they gonna ss with you and somewhere or the other? So haven't you guys ever been around somebody? They're like, oh yeah, you guys you to like do something on you to bryant like, oh, that's cute.

Like little podcast I just getting us so cool. I love your podcast is amazing if you felt that before, right? And you cannot you've know that there for second but then they hit you with the it's like the slap tickle there are like, oh, just kidding and i'm just they're not kidding in.

So when they show who they are and when they do a little pass of aggressive comment, note IT, that typically means deep inside they actually don't have a lot respect for you. The third thing I noticed when people are lie to you is that um they don't have a long history of relationships. So be really careful about humans who do not have long term friendships and relationships.

And I see this a lot online, i'm sure you guys do to like how long have they employed people? How long if their people been with them? Do they have friends like going all the way back to high school? Are they close with like their family? Or is every single time you talk to them about somebody historically, it's that person's problem, who was their family's problem? They kind of pull them to the side once they got bigger. Really good indicator .

of somebody who .

is probably going .

to do the same to things. People people yeah well.

think about I mean, all know a few people who are online and they come on like a storm, right? And like you guys, we're all charismatic for online. So we could probably make like us for a short period of time. But the real tell if you want to, especially if you're not like a position of power or like somebody might take advantage of you, is to figure out like who's been around them for a long time.

Can you talk to people that they've done deals with before? You know can you talk to x clients of theirs? How do they talk about them? And if if if you talk to a few of those people, you're very quickly see you'll see a pattern.

And and I think it's the same with dating. That guy would never data girl that says all my x boyfriends were toxic. Guess who's toxic you? I would never date a guy that says, all women are crazy.

Yes, it's crazy, you. And so um that is so common today. And yet what we are really doing, this fingerpointing .

the mayor word's of the Green flags .

to look for best predict of future behavioral past behavior. So have they won you know um in in sports, if if a team is on to lose in streak and a team is on a winning streak, who will have higher a bin percentage? Or you're going to almost always you're going to give the odds to the person who has been winning before, even if the other team historical IT was a Better team.

If they're on a losing streak, it's hard to break losing streak. And so one thing I always look for us like what happened recently, what's your recently bias? So the last couple of x you know x employees, x endeavors or whatever did you fail at all of those?

And if so, that's that's A A red flag. If you've been winning, add a bunch of them, that's a Green flag. It's like go you read this company, that company did well. You read this company, that company did well. Okay, this probably likely you're gona continue.

So being around so many people, could you tell if someone's gna be a failure or successful .

is pretty quickly? I can tell if I want to bet on somebody prety quickly or not. So like in our portfolio, I can try and thinking capital. We have like thirty one companies or something like that.

We look at hundreds of companies prior to figure out who we're going to, and I could tell pretty quickly who's going to win by a few things. One is speed faster. Remove the bigger bank account is so I think there is a bias towards speed and action that is critical.

And anything you do, in fact, you know, i've gotten to know some some members of of, let's say, mr. Beast team. And I remember the first time I was talking to one of them.

I like, why is Jimmy so good at what he does? And they were like, is really one thing. He moves so fast. It's uncomfortable. Like everything is now, now, now, now, now. And because of that, he gets so many shots on goal that he may actually fail more than anybody else, but he just has more time to execute on IT. And so if I can see that somebody responds to my emails right away in IT like a hiring process, if they get back to me immediately with action items or next steps, if they speak kind of quickly and move fast, not always true, but a good indicator of success.

Do you notice any light changes when people go from being broke to middle class, to the wealthy, to ultra? Well, thy terms maybe how they think their mentors, time management.

I think you can be what you can't see more than anything. And so what i've noticed is every time you can get in a room or other people's tuesday as your dream day, you end up making more money. And so i'm always fascinated by what happens when I get around the billionaire.

Just think different than you and I do. And so a lot of times, all right, about what billionaires are like. And it's because of a crazy fascination I have with, like, how do you have so much abundance in your mind that you even think that's possible? It's like so hard for me to categorize what like a billion dollars would look like if you're gna touch IT. And yet there are some people that they wouldn't do A A job or they wouldn't do a business if they don't think IT is going to be a billion dollars.

And so um the biggest difference I see from the really big and the really small is that they really like risk and they want you to sort of play, hey, ten years down the future, how big do we win from this because they value their time so intensely that that ten year period Better be orders of magnitude otherwise they're just not going to play the game. And so I think you know a lot of times in business, I think about a little bit like sports. You know a lot of us just play these games and we don't think about opportunity cost at all.

We don't realize that like every time we're watching netflix or we are selling something tiny or we are staying in a job we don't like, it's not just the or not making more money today is that, that compounds over time until the very end of time. And so that's one thing that I think is really difference between the two and maybe the the other thing is different between the really rich and the poor is when they see somebody who has more money than them, they're really curious as to how they got IT. And they don't at all see that negatively.

Like if I was to if we were sitting here with some of my friends who have billions of dollars, they would probably not talk very much. They would ask a tonic questions they'd like, you guys, you know, one of my friends had dinner with with worn buffer t and he said, the funny thing happened, he's a multibillion doors, had fun, is a great guy. He SAT down with warrant.

And they went to dinner and he was like, prepared know, he had his questions. He has his research. He sits down with war, starts talking him.

And every time he started asking him a question, warn flip IT and asked him a question. And so I out mico, what do you learn? He's like, what I learned is, is that Warren only asked me things.

He totally, you know, brain raped me for everything that I knew. And I couldn't even think about IT because I was trying to impress the guy kind of. And at the end of the conversation, i'm much less a rich than he is, but he probably learned more from me than I did at that dinner.

And funny, I sometimes do that when I don't want to talk, I just start asking people questions and let them talk .

because I just don't feel like IT yeah for maybe warm so many advantages.

Think about IT if you're if you play a game of of money, what is money is really just like an a knowledge transfer or a trust transfer.

You're just like it's kind of what you guys I think you're doing here, which, okay, uh, if I want to make more money today and I I have a goal, maybe I want to create a podcast that makes as much money as your guys is, what would I be doing in a perfect and I would be sitting down with grama jack and I would be saying, how does this work? How many people do you have here? How do you get the views? What does the data look like that you guys look like? So what do you like? Fun nails? How many times do we do IT? Oh, do you guys analyze IT the same way as as other podcast providers?

I would be like really curious about all of your stuff. And I kind of wouldn't care if you thought I was big time or interesting. I would just be dive in more until what you do. And so I think they really, really rich. They're almost always essential ly curious or they're totally uninterested.

Do you think that they're happier than the average person means?

The data seems to show us we're happier up to at least five hundred thousand dollars an annual income. I do think that money decreases misery. I don't know IT increases happiness, and I think we should realize that more often.

But I would say the the, the really, really rich that I know are the one that are happy are from like they're like a couple hundred millionaires. The billionaires are different because they get to shape the world of their fingertips, like when you talk to a jail on scale who runs pantier for instance. Um he is so uninterested in small problems and he plays at a totally different playing field. And so um I do think in order to do that, you're probably not optimized for for happiness, you're optimized for achievement.

So what you say that is that you're optimizing for in your own life right now.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, for me, I I think at the end of the day, the most fun game to play is building. And like if you can get bit with the building bug um then nothing else.

Is that interesting? And maybe that's how billion's think in some way too. It's like I wanna know actually what i'm capable like of I don't know if you guys ever think .

about about in terms .

of what I built, what is the biggest, most impacted thing I could build on this planet.

And the metro could be money.

The reason I went on the internet is because I also want an impact at some point. To me, money is not that interesting up until you have enough of IT, you guys should find out for yourself. You should go try to get as rich as possible.

I think that's awesome. But then you get to a certain point, like what are you going to buy? I'm not in yet. I'm not into all this crazy stuff I like. I wouldn't even buy a plane.

even buy a plane.

Now I think this seems wasteful, like I would use IT um and sometimes we do, but like having won out, right? I know I don't know if I IT maybe less security became in a year or something like that, but impact like that's cool at the end of, like when i'd die. I hope there a lot of people are like, I like, I was here that like, meet something. And so even if there's nothing after this. People could be like, hey, SHE liked helped my life in somewhere.

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what do you think are some of the biggest issues today that not a lot of people are talking about?

Twenty twenty private equity companies is on four percent of the company is in our country today. They own twenty percent of the companies we have the S M. P.

Five hundred. You know this all too well in which three companies on forty percent of the M P. Five hundred.

Now you might say, well, those are passive investments code. They don't actually own that. They're exchange.

They're in etf. They don't get to choose who they still get governance rights. And bill mcnab CEO vanguard, for instances, publicly, ipsa that out loud.

We are not passive in our governance, actually. So what do we have? We have big companies continue into own everything, and we become renters underneath them.

Now I thought the stock holders of those etf still are able to cast a vote based on how many they own. So that doesn't fall australian like vanguard lead. Well.

IT depends on what kind of structure they have IT in. So IT depends on if it's an active versus a passive. Atf IT depends on how the shareholder vote works.

So if you have, for instance, like when I was at bang gard back in the day, you could have an etf that had to get a majority of x people to vote on why situation. But here's how IT works. Very god reaches out to those shareholders and pushes them to make very in decisions.

They also are the ones they could to educate them on what decision they think they should make or not as a shareholder of a vanguard etf. How much do I know about what the governance of x on mobile should be, that inside there? I know decal, plus, I don't have time for that.

So what am I going to do? I'm going to go with the recommendation of of the company that manages my assets overall. And oh, by the way, it's not just shareholder votes, it's also what happens in the board room.

So they're not allowed to influence decisions except, of course, they do. You don't think that if I don't know deloitte has as their highest shareholder black rock, they're not onna, take meetings with black rock. And when black rock says, here's our core initiatives that we want to have, all companies we work with execute on delay is not going to pay attention to that.

Of course they are. And so there's both hard power A K shareholder voting rights and there are soft power OK. What might they do if X, Y, Z happen?

You don't think they would want people to vote in something this in their best interest because IT seems to me like if they're pushing people to a certain thing, that certain thing will ultimately make a shareholder money. They wouldn't to impact performance of the stocks so that they want the stock Price to call like they want you to do Better. They have vested interest in that.

We'll take a percentage. I think that makes sense theoretically except what have we seen happen. We've seen shareholder votes .

go for D I. Over making money. For instance, shareware.

let's say, uh, vanguard, which has they have created this old state street, which I worked out too. They've created entities that only investing companies that have X, Y, Z characteristics, right? So those X, Y, Z characteristic acti tics might be a one men or a minority on the board, right? And if they don't have that, they won't fit into this bucket.

But I thought that because certain government agencies are funding companies like that, so these investment firms have just made companies that to get funding. And because it's become more popular among certain groups, they do this because this just makes money.

That's one bucket, but not all because you have so many corporations that do no business with the government that still have these corporate initiatives. That might sound good. IT goes back to the second and third or effect IT might sound good, but is that actually benefit the user?

Like I don't know about most people listening, but I don't never want to be chosen because i'm a woman and alatta. I want to be chosen because I am the best person for the job. And yeah, i'd like to have a wider breath of of people that we're choosing from for very in board positions.

But don't hire me because i'm a female that's crazy. Hire me because i'm best or hire somebody else. Um but yeah, I think you have some government entities that get contracts because they are listed as veteran owned, female owned, minority owned.

sure. And increasingly, we see a lot of government funding going to institutions like that, but we certainly have corporate non government entities that are still being influenced to the exact same way. And that's just one instance.

I think the problem in the u yesterday that nobody's talking about is too few people on everything. And I actually think we can push back on IT quite a bit. And my last at all push here is a perfect example, is, say, you buy from amazon niono te coffee cups.

Those amazon coffee cups live in your local economy somewhere around ten to sixteen cents. You were to go to a store locally in vegas and buy a coffee cup. You would leave about sixty cents to every dollar in your local economy.

And so what we've had happened is we have these centers that are goblin up tons of the the profits and not centralizing them locally in our economy. And so I don't think we realize the implications of that yet as these big companies gets so, so, so big. It's why anti trust and monopoly are actually important. And i'm like a bit of a laboratory ans i'm kind of like the government get out of the way except they start getting subsidies in government tax credits. And so maybe be a libertarian is also limited all of that.

It's hard for me to find A A A reason why I wouldn't do the on example and like pure locally because they make so much easier.

That's the point. The whole by local thing doesn't work. So what works instead, in my opinion, is that you own local businesses that service customers Better, more consistently.

We can't tell users to not use amazon to wait too convenient, the products, way too good. And we've given them a Thomas subsidies and taxes in order for you to be Better and Better and Better. So what do we have to do? Instead, we have to in the areas where we can compete with the big guys, we need to own the business instead of letting private equity companies .

in the big corporations all IT really seems like the the only business is worth going to our retail establishments that you can't get online like in your nails done or getting your hair or office so you .

can have been a personal services, that's what you just might get my hair done, get my nails done. Home services would you be like roofing, landscaping, cleaning, plummet. Um you could also professional services, which is like you guys i've ever worked with a personal account that's a local often times way Better than going to turbo or a centralized um you professional services business.

So those three verticals, human touches still really necessary. And oh by the way, if you're scared of A I the last thing that will be taken over on my pluming companies, you know, those will last much longer than the graphic design companies and even than us on the internet. We're going to have A I versions of us everywhere. And we will be taken over before the hands on service.

thinking on the robots, program them with A I and they can fix anything. All of the sudden there are a licensed electricity, an a licensed contract or a licensed plumber. And you go to your robot, hey bot, this sink isn't draining. And its downloads IT is immediately searches. Google finds the answer looks probably eventually happen.

But where where investors in like a big, a few big, really big robot companies, one called figure. So figure is a bread ad cox company, multi billion dollar company. And was interesting with these robots is IT is so complex to build a human robot that has ability to do multi functions that they just came up with a way for a robot to avoid somebody if they're coming out them like that brand.

This ability was incredibly difficult and figures the only one that's been able to do IT. We are so far away from a multi function robot that is hard to imagine. And so now there is a lot of things that can be run remotely with human intervention, but we're far from that. What's gona happen first is that accountants, bankers and attorneys will be robotizing online. And that will happen much prior to it's almost difficult to understand the complexity of plum like you have to have somebody come to your location, you have to have somebody have, uh, the ability to have tactile function with things that is incredibly difficult to replicate with humans right now.

I think one time are going to be in a pod somewhere. We're going to have a um like robot figures like in public. So you could be home you like, but it's try to like you could be home is like in a pod .

that sounds off.

I had this for us. You would have your robot you like go to the star box, but that robot could like run faster and drive that interested to there.

like a video game, like you're .

playing the video game avatar of yourself going to in your pod.

You could be so perfectly regulated where you live, like three hundred. And then you just have your robot like actually living your life where you're like simulation controlling that and you have like an ab machine on you. You're getting like carrot injected in vans, like I imagine .

roofing like your your roof so you don't have to sert body anymore like you have the like robot version.

This as soon as it's all high level, then we start talking, just do I sure .

but you have .

a very prediction that .

like place for you can have your robot can pick up heavy things. What have you are that you could do yourself and it's not back breaking work.

I think we'd be happier .

if we did that as a society. I think .

parents .

like like you're playing a video game. Just imagine you're playing a video game except you getting paid to do a job.

And the only way is if it's completely independent uih ble from real life, that's when that would be fine. Where you literally could not tell us the simulation theory where you could not tell. But I feel like if there's a splinter of doubt of like weight, my robot is not actually me, then all of the sudden that's going to send you in some sort of like a existent al crisis and you like, what what am I even doing going out this pod? These things are .

in my arms yeah. Well, maybe I am, I think more likely as some sort of like consciousness development that goes beyond you know, it's something like narrow link. But I think and IT would be very I mean, I think about IT today, what do we know for sure?

We know that the more we use technology and the more we are in our phones and on lines and in gaming, the less happy we are. So what the data a tells us, the less human engagement that we have, the less happy we are. The less human touch we have, the less happy we are, the less you work out, uh, your happiness drops.

The less five and d you get from the sun, your happiness drops. So I think the idea of being an ipod continuously, maybe i'm older, but I think that sounds fascinating. But you go straight to you in the matrix.

So you said you're kind of a libertarian. Then how do you squash the argument that most of the things in life that are enticing to us are the things that are bad for us and especially recently, when we don't really suffer consequences for doing bad actions on ourselves like you know, to find out to go to the gym because you can get medication and you can do all of these other things, you can take exempt and there are so many shortcuts that like long term have really bad consequences. But realistically, you don't .

really see those well um I think that IT shouldn't be incentivised by the government. So for instance, you know today we have subsidies on a lot of food types that are actually bad for us, that makes them cheaper for us that I don't think is good government intervention. I do think having optionality is important, but we should make honesty important.

And so for instance, it's just easy to go to health care because you look at food today and you know think about during our lifetimes, you guys remember when the food paramon was like, the best thing is you should eat all the grains. We should at all the Greens, all the time, pizzas, a part of food group. Actually, we should include that in schools.

And what are we finding increasingly that this this processing of all of our food is making us fatter? And then, you know, mike is retail, an exercise scientist that I recently had on the podcast. I like to take on OEM ic because I tend to think that the more self selected misery you have, the more happiness you actually get as a by product of IT to your point.

Um but his take that I thought was fascinated he goes, what most people understand is you've ever been a body builder. You've been so hungry that is IT feels painful. Like before a body building competition, you're starring yourself.

Your muscles are eating itself. You can think about anything besides food. Your because your food drive is incredibly high. His thesis that there are some humans who have an incredibly high food drive, just like some people haven't incredibly high sex drive, let's say. And because of that, something like olympics can really help with curb in the food drive.

You've got a parent with positive solutions like working out exercises eta, but I like that take because in a lot of time. So I think people are shooting on oceanic. And I think anything that allows you to kick start is really important because it's you know in life today, it's sort of like if you think about what's easier is, is easier to light a match, is IT easier to start a lighter, or is IT easier to widdle two pieces of wood together until the sticks catch flame.

The widdle together is definitely the hardest. And so if you can instead start a fire by something like olympic material change or gains, and then make lifestyle change on top of IT, because ford mom antm is hard to stop. I think that's incredibly powerful for people, but I do think we have to limit what corporations can do from a great perspective.

Where are you investing your own money these days? Is that just businesses? Are you buying stocks real state? I don't buy stocks. Um I have some OK I have .

some and I been that continues to accumulate but by and large, I have um you know I have some like different bond strategies um that my advisers might use like we use a lot of security zed loans basically and we'd also be like stock market investments.

Probably just that generalize stock market that I never touch I A financial adviser or that runs IT some uh bond a various types of bond portfolios because I want there to not be a lot of movement in the Price so that I can use IT to get loans to buy more businesses or to fund businesses have lines of credit. But for the most part, yeah, businesses today more than anything, I mean is just not a Better trade. I can find like for instance, you know we just bought we just bought up a business in the defense space um that I think makes a ton of sense and that businesses ninety percent seller financed.

It's profitable. We make all our money back and like a year that's not easy to do every single time. But like where can you do that in in stock market, investing the lever is just really hard.

And once you get good at running businesses and investing in businesses, I think it's hard to see opportunity elsewhere. And then the best business investors always buy businesses that are strategic. So these days, it's like, alright, tina, I was just looking at what media assets can we acquire? no.

So can I acquire a couple different channels? What about some license and agreements now? Can we buy the assets of this company to plug into what we're doing here? And that IT becomes like this giant game that you get to play with connecting all these puzzle pieces together now, I think is like the highest level of rich, like when you don't really know what you're doing in business and you don't have a lot of money, you think everything's how problem I how do this? When you have some money and some understanding the business, it's becomes a whole problem.

Who can I go to to solve my problem? And then when you hit the final level, IT becomes a buy solution, which is like, where can I go by with a high degree of certainty? The solution to my problem today, I can't hire somebody.

Let me go do an echo higher of a business over here. I need more revenue. Let me buy this company to insert into IT. And once you learn this level of the game is really hard to be poor again, I think.

And how does IT work when you own these businesses? You buy no. Do you just take a percent of the revenue is you're on income? Or do you choose not to take income to reinvest?

Well, IT depends where you are in your life. For me personally, I take a percentage of most business deals we do or IT goes to the portfolio. Now we have a company, we have main street holding company and can turn thinking capital.

Those two empty ties have teams on them. So this is the stuff that like private, I could guys never tell us. I don't know why. I guess they don't want that.

They want to mote around IT, but those a lot of the revenue goes to fund the companies and to to go to another deal with the revenue we get from one company goes to fund the employees. We hire a few more people to run these entities um and then yeah, we take a lot of revenue for ourselves. I mean, that's the ultimate tax play.

It's actually little crazy that that's how the government is set up. But you know you look at the difference and you know all about this, but if you make just earned income and you're a high earner, the government takes you know fifty percent of what you earn. So when they say tax the rich, well, if you're making multi millions, they're taking fifty percent of what you earn.

If it's in earn to income A K wages. But if you're able to instead get most of your earnings from distributions and capital gains, you make your money, do all the work for you. No, you can have a nine percent um tax bracket. And so you know how do you get to .

nine percent tax?

Well you'd have to have a percent real estate. You'd have to take loans from your own port folio and use the loans as income as supposed to taking direct distributions in games like there are so many ways the rich game, the system should be.

No, I don't. How should I be done? I think of IT, the earned income is taxed a lower rate.

I think that we should incentivize people to work more and deploy more capital. I think why they tried to do the distributions at a lower tax rate in capital gains at a lower tax rate because they wanted people to put more money into the economy and keep .

the economy growing. You be crazy. Imagine flipping the tax brackets, the more money you make. The letter text. You know how .

much elon mosques paid in taxes? Persons, ten billion dollars. He is the single biggest taxpayer in human history.

That what crazy. That that's a drop in the bucket. When you look at like how much the united spans that even ten billion, there nothing minutes like a day, like the day the government, yeah.

that was like a very unpopular real we did once. As we try to explain, I want to mess up the math, so I want to be publicly, but try to explain how long the U. S.

Government could actually fund itself if IT took all income from the top one percent and IT was somewhere between thirty days and six months. And so is like if you have visceral, the wealthy, the government. Continues for thirty days.

And so um you know I think this idea of taxing the Richard the highest level doesn't really work. We've got is I think the only person that has made a really good case about how to grow our way out of our debt. Everything that we have happening is viva talking about G D P. Growth, like the only way out is growth.

I do think a reverse tax break would be very interesting that because I was think to myself, if trump to lower tax is significant in for the next four years, and you just know for the next four years the top tax basket is going to be twenty percent, how much harder would you work over the next four years to max mize that I I yeah I would work really hard and so i'm thinking, what if this a tear system is almost like a not like a humid where goes up and like he hit the max taxes at like four, five hundred thousand hours within.

If you make over a million, yeah, take less over five million tax, over ten thousand tax less. I think you would really push people over that hurdle. Let's make the most of this now interesting concept. I've never thought of IT until now.

And I think actually for salary earners, you already see what a decreased tax instead of does for people who earn salary. All you have to do is look at the u ho rates leaving california and the u ho rates going from texas to california, like two x cheaper going from texas to california as opposed to the other way.

And the reason why is because people who make a lot of money are like, or next time here, there are no text, that a lot of us who are moving into the other state, which is probably White, the texas is booming in a way california isn't. So I think you're probably right. And it's good that we have like a federal system where people can make they can move with their feet.

Um I think that's actually really, really important for like health of economies because just like companies, could you imagine if you were just held hostage by a company, you could never earn more, you could never leave how they would treat you. They wouldn't treat you very well. And so I think we should want that inside of our country too. And we should we should reward the people that treat as well. Cities.

states. I think states should also give people an amount to move there .

like as in .

a yeah no. I.

The small italian city and make two hundred thousand dollars if you stay and i'll give you a house. My dogs make nice.

There are days we want to end IT off on this. We have some hypotheticals for oria, but they are really interesting. The first is about labor custom working conditions.

You are in the company, they can maximize profits by outsourcing labor to countries with less labor regulations, where wages are low and conditions may be support. What is your moral obligation to workers in other countries? And does your profit justify their potential exploitation?

Now I think humans are humans. I do think that, uh, if you can get a mobile workforce and they're cheaper, but IT is a good quality of life for them, that makes all the sense in the world to me. We do IT.

We outsor some third party remote tasks. What do I think that you should subjective humans for profit? No, nor do you. I think it's necessary in today's stage. There's too much transparency as is. So you can actually sell worth the premium if you say one hundred percent made in america, for instance, no exploit over time. I don't think that's necessary um even though I think of a lot of people .

do IT product has a great profit potential but may pose risks if overused, like a sugary food product or gambling up. Should you market aggressively to all demographics, including vulnerable customers, or focus on responsible marketing, that may limit profitability.

The problem with that is thinking about, like, what isn't bad for you if you used accessible fly, like, god bless. I mean, I think everything is bad for you. If successively, you could bly die from me too much salary. So I guess the question would be like, who's in charge of what's bad for you or not?

What could be something maybe that's more addict tive? I could be like like a tiktok, the sugary for this example, where it's if you consume IT, it's gna lead you to want that even more. Here's the thing.

if you are good at making money, you can make money doing anything, which I think something I wish more people would realize. So why spend your life doing something shit? I never understood that for, like, I actually, I think most people are doing what they do because they think that IT is beneficial in some way if they're at the highest level.

I think even people inside of peppo or coca cola who are selling, you know, sugary beverage drinks actually are in some way rationale zing to themselves why it's good or bad. I don't think a lot of people are purely, purely evil. actually.

I think that we are incredible self rationalizers as human beings. But my question for the youth, and I think they're really thinking about this, is like, like, I can make money. I can make millions of dollars with longer about like, what can you make millions of dollars with?

So why would you want to go sell vapors to teens if you wanted to make millions? If instead you could probably make just as much, I don't know, like saving puppies or making puppy here, like choose a path that actually makes you happy and feel you're a good human being. I don't think it's necessary to do bad to things in order. Didn't make a lot of money.

What's your biggest fear?

My biggest fear used to be failure, but I don't think that's the case anymore because I failed so many times. It's it's the biggest here is probably I miss an opportunity to do something because of fear. So and my plane too small and me, one of my favorite mentors, really rings that in my mind. Again, I was with him yesterday. It's bill perkins again, and he basically said this thing to me, which was when I was walking along the lake with him.

Have you been around small business for so long that small has infected you're thinking? And I remember that the time that again, like a kind of a dig that's rude but then the more i've gotten to know him, know he was just saying yesterday, he's like because when I see somebody who's capable of something that makes me sad if they don't really try for something big in the same way that I think for a lot of us, if I had a kid, IT would make me sad if my kid didn't try to play all out, like if they held back during a sports game because they were scared they might fail. They just wanted to hit singles, and they never tried for a home run.

I think that's kind of sad, like try for a home run once in your life. So my biggest fear is like where we plan to small um because what of this is all again? What if we are in a pod right now?

We're sitting here, are robots out there in the actual world doing something. We've chosen this game and we don't play all out you. We know we all die at the end of the day. And so why .

not really try? What is one piece of non financial advice that you would want to give all the listeners?

Or know, I think life is lot easier if you have a belief in something bigger than you. I know it's not that popular to say these days. A lot of people don't believe god, and I think you should do whatever you want with your personal beliefs. But man, faith really takes you pretty far.

I think every time I I worry about something, I remember that i'm practicing in atheism basically that I think that if if i'm so worried this season going to work out and I don't have a lot of faith in something bigger than me and kind of the opposite side of the equation to which is like, I don't know, isn't IT more helpful to believe that there is a god that gets you back then just to like, be existentially worried about everything all the time. And so I think Young people, if you're lonely, if you're struggling and if you're scared, I don't know, maybe, maybe try a church because there aren't very many places where people try to get Better every single week together, and they actually believe in the good of humans. And I think we're a little bit happier when we do that.

I cares about this. Can you be a good sales person if you're selling something that you don't like?

Yes, they exist everywhere um because they're obsessed with the game. There's lots of sales people that just love selling. And so they're like, know what I mean, I could I could sell somebody if I really wanted to on most things.

And I think good sales people can know I could sell you glass of water even if I knew I was sick. And you probably shouldn't drink IT because I might just be obsessed with the idea of selling. And can I get somebody else to do a thing that I want them to do? So I think that's a false and narrative. When people say can be good day of people, you don't believe it's just more fun. I think long term when you do believe in IT, but you can believe in just yourself and just in bet in yourself and not believe in your product and sell a shift on and the world is full .

of companies that do exactly that. Thank you so much.

I'll linked to all of your information back out. Lots of a great graphic and illustrations there.

I want to see IT. If you're watching this right now, you're not already subscribe to, please subscribe. It's totally free. We spent a lot of time going through these cost. You nothing that would mean the world to us code.

Thank you for coming on the show. Thank you. Thank you guys for watching till next time.