168: Final Feedback
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Hello, and welcome to automate these show where we talk things, all things, smart tech, automation and getting technology to do. York for you. I am and enjoyed palka. David fox, hey, David.

I I am great. rose. I am a little sad because this is our last episode of the automated podcast, but i'm so happy to be here talking you today.

Yes, yes, I am going to miss the show a lot a as, uh, we have heard from many listeners that they will as well, which has been lovely to hear. But unfortunately, IT is one of those things where this is what we need to do. And so that's what we're going to do. But that doesn't mean we're not going to trying deliver a great show for everybody .

yeah you know and for those who missed out for any reason, uh, rose and I both are just incredibly busy and we had to make some tough decisions. Uh, the show takes a lot of work to make IT right? And the and ended up uh, something that we decided to retire sort of I mean, I the more I think about IT, we're sort of retiring IT because that doesn't mean that rose mary orchard doesn't going to be guessing on my power users once in a while.

And IT, does that mean if you gonna be talking about automation more now that you know this this this platform won't be here? So so definitely follow over in P, U. And keep in I on the show titles if you're not interested in everything we do, but keep in I for the automation related titles.

And and rose will be guessing. And I think we're onna be able to to get a lot of automation coverage, just not as much as we were doing with A A twice monthly show. But um i've never shut down a podcast before.

So this is a very strange experience. I woke up this morning this feeling kind of glum about IT. But at the same time, I know it's what we need to do and and IT was kind of something both of us are going through right now. We just need need a little more time to make the other stuff working on as good as possible. And and that's yes, you know that's life yes yeah exactly.

And you know we we always want to give people the the best uh possible podcast. So you know if we can't deliver that, then we will be we selling ourselves short as well as all of our fabulous listeners like you. So yeah we we had to do the right thing, but we really wanted to do the right thing.

yes. So I thought for today's final episode, we've got some big picture automation questions to talk about answer, but got a bunch of great feedback. And on the automatic max, the ad for extinct version show, we're gonna talk about, uh, where we see the future of apple intelligence and automation of have coming together.

So we've got a lot of good step to talk about today. I guess we should just get started with the big question. Rose, why do you automate?

Oh, this is a chAllenging one, David, because you know, there's a number of reasons like all the time, I will start by creating a little automation for a thing because there's multiple steps to IT, and I just need to get those steps right.

I have to do them in the right order and you know I can't miss step know if you miss up sex h than everything sort of goes, hey, why wrong? So that's a lot of the time where I start with, you know it's about the the accuracy of the thing that i'm doing versus the speed in particular um but sometimes it's also I know I can do this text manually right now, but actually it's faster for me to write a quick script and i'm using scripters A A generic term c could be a shortcut, could be a keeping my mico, could be a scrip script, but some kind of automation solution to just do the thing because I need to you know take twenty ones from here and combine with twenty lines over there to create four hundred results. Um so you know a little bit easier to do that sometimes. What about you? Well.

I I think you you you hit the big point there, but I think the first one is, is just friction, right? There's a lot of stuff that we encounter, particularly with the digital devices in our lives, uh, where in an effort to make IT accessible to everyone, they made IT tedious for power users. You know, like you ve got to go through and push this button and and then push that button.

And all that makes sense for a lot of people who don't do this stuff very often are particularly technical ate. And you want to make sure you've got the ability to to use the technology in a way that benefits them. But all of that adds extra friction.

And and there's an underlying part of me that absolutely hates that friction. Like if I have to put something in and then do one extra step every time I do IT IT makes me nuts. And I think that's been true for me since I first started using computers back.

The old tandy color computer too. I was looking for ways to automate things. I think I remember I wrote a script about when you plug in the the cassette record, you know, for saving files.

And like there was this stuff I was doing back in the original hardware. And so my whole life i've always been bugged by that. And I think a lot of people listening show have the same reflections and IT feels really good to fix that.

Like when you have an automation, whether you know you're creating a project, listen omi focus or you do some little bit of magic with shirt cuts are something more expensive that that does like some of the cool stuff rose doesn't behind the scenes on our show, every time you see at work efficiently, there's a part of me that releases happy chemicals on a house. But you know, so that that I think the big reason for me is the elimination of friction. The side benefit, of course, when you automate, it's consistent.

You know not only doesn't mean that you don't have to do IT IT means that you won't get IT wrong. Like a great example for me with that is, is male sorting. Like I know all these people who sort their male developers and they sit there and they drag in the folders and like manually, takes a ton of time to do that.

And there are so many great automation tools, whether it's server side or clients side or either is so many ways to sort that male faster. And when you put in an automation, IT always puts in wrong right folder. I mean, IT always gets up right when you do with your mouth.

If you're not paying close attention occasion and you're going to get in the wrong place and you will be able to find IT. That's a good example where automation is consistent. So it's it's faster element friction and its consistent. And yeah, I think that's just A A great goal when you're using computers to be able to do that kind of thing and to do IT yourself. I mean, I think the other thing about automation is we've got to a point where anybody can do IT.

That was the big goal of this, Frankly, was that not necessarily just the you know, high in computer programmer types, but people who are dentists are students, are people who have very little automation experience, could listen to an episode and pick up something and turn IT into an automation thing, which, which I think leads the next point. And I know i'm kind of reamed ling here, but it's fun. It's fun, fun to do this stuff and hope that all up and make IT work.

Yes, absolutely. And I think you know that is, you know, part of the satisfaction. Know if I just had twenty records here, twenty records there, and I need to create accommodation where, you know, all of the first twenty records can be combined with all the second twenty records, like I can do that with a spr sheet, or I can just copy and pace things or whatever IT is.

But creating the automation for, you know, it's a size that the h in my brain that wants to solve problems in a fun way, because that sort of problem saving for me is fun. And and even if that bits not fun, there is always a sense of satisfaction, uh, for a lot of things in knowing that you've done the job right. And that is the other part of what I really love about automation.

You know, i've created this project and all my focus, and i've got the folder over here and i've got a document here that I can take notes into right away for this. And I can see, uh, you know, my toss list over there, all of those things because I pressed and type to number. And the next time I would sit down to record and episodes tomatas, the same thing would happen, pop up and say, hey, what's the exploit de of automatons?

By the way, I already added one because, you know, I am enough to remember IT create the older open on my focus, show me what I need to know um at some tasks for the next episode and so on is so forth and then I can see all of the things that I need to do and IT IT just works. And then when I finish, you know, the the files also much, he get renewed and dropped into the folder that gym m needs access to are a wonderful editor, and everything just magically happens. And knowing that I don't have to sit there manually do twenty things to make this happen is great.

You know, does IT save time? Yes, yes, IT does save time. But it's also just, I got the job done. I got the job done right.

And I didn't matter how turned all my brain was when I press the button, and how much of IT is I was in, because I was running late from this or data, whatever IT was the thing happened because I click the button, and that was all I needed to do. And I ran often. IT did the magic. And I think that, for me, is the most magical part.

Yeah, another great thing about automation is that the knowledge is cumulative. So as you learn, automation is just as unto itself. Um if you start out just making like a two step shortcut, before you know you're making four steps or cuts and then before you know IT in your combination with a key ard mass script and then suddenly if find yourself writing apple scripting, just the knowledge accumulates and once you have, you know I was used the the analogy of a tool belt.

You know, once you start learning the different tools so you've got the hammer and the screwed river and the players, you be surprised what all you can do with automation because you've got the knowledge of these various tools and how to use them together. And and so it's very satisfying in that way that the knowledge, you know, I sound like you have, we'll start. From marine invention of the wheel with every time you automate something, like every time you do another thing, you can use a little bit of the acknowledge you learn last time you did something like that.

absolutely.

There's another piece of this though, and I don't think we've really dressed this question on the show, but I think it's important to discussed here, especially the end is what automation can't do for you. And the thing that brings us up in my mind is now I hear from people, especially with the emergence of ChatGPT and large language models, looking for automation to go like a step further.

Like I talked about this in the army focus field guide, which LED to some emails from from folks that we're like throwing all their tasks at artificial intelligence, saying, okay, look at all these tasks have written down and decide which ones I should do today. And the people also that with calendar now and there's apps out there specializing in figuring out what should you calender today, what should you do today. I personally feel like automation is great for the mechanical bits, but it's not good for the decision bits. And maybe this is just it's were too early in the process and that someday in the future, A I will get so good that i'll change my mind on IT. But I feel like there's parts of this stuff where we as humans need to take an active role and automation really isn't .

the answer yeah, I think it's one of these things where you know you can use automation to to give you a serious had start on some of these things like, for example, creating a packing list for a trip, right? You could ask ChatGPT or h code or any of these A S to create a packing list for trip from h and you'll be traveling to this particular location, uh, on these dates.

And so I can do things like look up what the average of the patterns IT can count, count how many days there are. You might not be able to count how many hours or install berry, but I can can try and count how many days there are in your trip. And there are all suggestions, like five pairs of underwear because, you know, you're gone for five days, things like that.

And that's great, but it's only suggesting things based on its knowledge. And I think what is really easy to forget is we have a lot of contextual awareness of things that we are not ourselves aware of. So if I were to ask you to organize, and you know, I gave uh, the testers at work today a couple of new things that get started on at, and that means that there's two testers looking at two different things i've created and both of them are saying like Y, I found like this little bit that doesn't look quite right. That little bit doesn't look quite right.

There's a typo here, so on so for absolutely fine, I could ask you to to you te organize handling all of those and tell tell me which bug, which bug do I work on first? cool. But IT doesn't know that one of those projects has potentially a lot more associated issues with IT than the other.

And so so so I would have to give IT that information. And IT doesn't necessarily know by looking at the titles that actually these two things, they are linked. And I can see that because I can look at IT and I know that they're linked.

And if i'm gna have to do all that information to deliver that context into an a ibot, by the time i've done that, I can have also just had a look at this five different things that i've been asked to look at and decided i'm good to this one first because it's probably gona do that on as well and then i'm good tackle those three in whatever order appeals to me most in the moment because IT depends on how the first couple go. And I think, you know, it's it's well, these things where we still need the checking baLances of ourselves in there. You can't just turn your brain off of you, us ChatGPT to create a packing list.

brilliant. Because as well as little tight to pack five pairs of underwear, you pack five pairs of underwear. You don't realize that that was including socks as underwear, our socks separate access list item, yes or no.

Well, that depends on you and your context. But if you end up on holidays somewhere, you don't have socks, you can try and blame ChatGPT, but at the end of the day, you are the one that put in the suitcase. So we still have to take some responsibility here for these things.

And you know it's it's very easy to get caught up in the IT. IT seems like it's a really powerful tool and IT absolutely is. But IT is no perfect under these things are and we always need to, you know double check these things ourselves and make sure that we've actually got a good result that we can work with or don't see what is produced by an A I as a result. See IT as a stepping stone to get to the final result. IT just needs were those final checks before you you take IT and passed, go and collect your two .

hundred dollars. Yeah I mean, one of the primary reasons I jump out a Better day and make content from x Sparky is because I feel like there's something I have to add. And I have always been an optimist about technology.

I believe that I can make your life Better. IT can make you Better things you do. I can be truly a great assistant for us.

Um there are elements of a ye that I think one day will will give us all so much help that we wouldn't have otherwise. I see that. But I also feel fundamentally that silicon valley has failed us.

Like when we first saw computers, and I was a kid, you know, the time maxin Clair and the tandy color computers are for showing up, we all said, isn't this great? We're all gonna be so much more productive and Better at things when we can dump our typewriters and calculators and have a computer that so much of the stuff for us. And what happened instead was a bunch of people until can finally realized they could make a lot of money by selling advertising.

And a lot of what comes out of the technology sector is not meant to make your life Better or make you Better, but it's meant to turn you into a product. So IT can all advertising and uh, but I do think if you're knowledgeable at that, if you go at this mindfully that you can truly live the dream, you can make this technology work for you, you can make your life Better using IT and automation absolutely fits in. That is a big piece of the puzzle in my mind.

But the the danger, like rose was saying this, if you go too far down the rabbit hole with this stuff and you start thinking you can automate the humanest part, well, you can't and you shouldn't want to. So that's the trick. I got to find those limits.

And the other one, and we've talked about this on the show, be careful about automation rabbit holes, don't you know if you you're really going to do something once or twice, don't spend two days writing an automation for just do IT and um and everybody has a kind of make their own decision about the payoffs that rose. I tend to to go down the abbott all prety quickly, but we share IT, you know what the stuff we make and where we we publish the shows and think so other people benefit from IT. But if you've just making up for yourself, be careful about that.

But I think the bigger question, as we are at this kind of turning point with A I merging is, you know, think about the kinds of things you want to automate and do IT thought fully. Just be careful. And don't I don't think it's ever gonna pick what your best calendar items are. I think you need to pick that. You need to take ownership that the yeah exactly.

And you know, going back to what you said, David, about, you know, if you are going to do this once or twice, you know don't spend forever writing automation on do consider how long gis IT going to take to do this task and then check that IT was done correctly. But so is how long is going to take to build the automation, check the automation works correctly um and then and then run up because sometimes IT might take you two days to automate something you're going to do once but if that was gonna take you two months to do IT by hand that's absolutely worth IT IT takes you two days to automate at taking you two minutes I mean, it's a good learning exercise one hundred percent but IT may not have been the best use of your time um and the oth thing i'll i'll just a say you know relating to automation is you know ask you know A I for suggestions on how to automate things by all means but never assume that any code that IT gives you is correct like make make an effort to try and understand what it's saying and learn the meaning of what is actually done and check whether or not it's done to correctly because I have seen so much code spat out by various ais that just straight doesn't work or IT doesn't do what they ve requested IT too.

But unless you know you know how to code and the code that is produced as not necessarily obvious, I think we're kind of lucky with shortcuts and respect that we can just write script and that be the shortcut I know you can with with jelli cut sand, some other things actually write IT as as a script in the habit converted into a shortcut, but not quite the same thing. And ChatGPT is fortunately for arsenal there. Yes, because I can't imation the the funny games that would have uh you know randomly creating shortcut t actions that just straight out to to exist because that would be that would be interesting but are not necessarily great for the person trying to do the alteration.

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We got a lot of great feedback heading into the show a day. The first one was a note from Peter. He said, I just wanted to say I understand your decision to wrap up the show.

Uh, I wear too many heads myself, so I get being stretched to them. However, I be sorry not to have to show my rotation. I will share that.

You've got me started on my journey with home assistant back with when rose mary talked about IT in twenty twenty one. I'm now all in with the platform and i've learned so much along the way. And and then he said some other nice things to us. I feel like common system was one of the big you know coverage points of the show throughout its run and and for good reason, it's like it's like the home stuff, but so much Better yes yes.

And I mean, just IT to go out for anybody who's looked today before I gone like, oh IT seems like it's quite big and so like absolutely can big. But the the purpose of homes system is essentially to replace home kit, but that doesn't mean that you don't get home kit.

The idea with homes system really big al put everything in home assistant and then share IT back to home kid or to your alix says or google home or they've just announced um they're working on h they and also have universe that they've got A A physical voice assistant box that you can bine now which is really cool um and those that sort of you know thing is is pretty awesome. But for me, the power of home system one hundred percent is okay. I was ambitious and I went to script to do a thing, or right, automation to do a thing.

And now, second, in the morning, my light, to turn on why and the fact that I can just go into the lookout ook and see rose da, silly. Wide a rovio, silly. Oh, well, this intrigued at three o in the morning, and that shouldn't have happened.

Okay, well, I can fix that. The fact that I can actually go back and figure out what i've done and what's happening and so on is so force. So when things don't happen or do happen, I can actually see why that is so powerful.

And especially when you're you first really getting started in diving in and creating all these fancy automation, it's really nice to be able to see that sort of thing. You know, I need IT less now. I've make fewer mistakes, but every soften I get a little over ambitious and write a really cool, complicated automation. And then i'm there going, why did lights in my office turn on as soon as I woke up this morning? That's a question I need to solve, and I can, because I can see exactly why IT happened, which is great.

Yeah IT took me a while to kind of adopt the home assistant and that's for a couple of reasons. Um as we talked about the show, I was really indeed with with home apple home kit and a and the family had adopted IT. I I didn't want to mess things up for them but with roses encouragement i've really kind of been diving deeper with home home assistant, particularly in my workspace because I have like a room that this kind of where I do all my work and they don't need to have any home kit, you know, stuff there so that gives me freedom to do more experimenting with IT. But also all say over the last several years, the home assistant team has made this much less of a fringe technology like the user interfaces got Better um you know just building IT up and starting using that is so much easier than IT was what even when I first started that I think this is much more accessible to people than they probably think at this point.

Oh yeah, absolutely. And I think it's just one of those things where it's you know, it's worth that going and taking a look at IT and seeing all of the source of things that you can add to your smart home that you can't necessarily do yet through home. Kid, you know, home kit is getting more powerful, especially with the matter support that is coming.

But matter is a bit slow to to roll out. You know, that's not a complaint against matter. I much they took their time to do IT, right. But there is a lot of devices that don't necessarily get full integration with hong kit that are already in homes system or just the ability to be like, hey uh so I have a sensor on the door and I also have a heating system.

And whenever I want whenever the automation runs to control my heating system, I just want to check the the doors closed um before I do that and when the door opens, I want to turn off the heating and then I will turn all back on and I just kind of like in automation, I don't want six different automation to control the same sort of thing. Um and you know that being able to create the generic entity, zen and devices and so so on and so forth, you know i've got a uh climate sensor which checks the humidity and I have a smart plug e on my dehumanise and i've combined the two of them to create A D like a smart dehumidifier that takes the accessible straw of the air. You can do the same thing.

To create a smart humidifier is in fact the same same integration. And the fact that I can just take two non smart entities or two smart, smart things and put on a dumb and make IT smart that that to me is a real killer. No, I don't have to go around replacing the expensive dehumidifier that I have. I can make IT smart with a few cheaper things that I already have.

Yeah, I just uh this kind of related but I bought on on black friday. I bought couple uv doorknocker um and i've been using the um the the ones that I could riki uh they were quick set but they're kind of getting old in the tooth and I had a couple doors that didn't have smart lucks on them and the uv had a sale on the one that is a smart lock.

But IT also has a camera in IT and at least for the front door, it's really nice to to be able to have a camera pointed right out your front door. And um so I won't have to install that. But of course, IT doesn't work with home kit and like that. One of my my to do items is to get all that plug. And i'm sure that uv, I has a connection to home assistant and I would be able to use host system to control those.

Yeah absolutely and says .

i've really enjoyed your show for many years now and i've learned so much from you. I know i'm much more efficient now with my mac and my programing task and tools. The stream deck probably would not be on my desk without the automatic podcast. Well, you know, I think a lot of stream deck are on people's death because of our show.

I think, David, by that, you mean there's a lot of stream dex on your desk .

because of this that .

may blood out to a few listeners here and there. Yeah you've definitely got a few.

And the ian continues starting to see the show closing to understand that it's more burden than fun out. That isn't true. It's still fun.

It's just what about very busy. So we're just trying to like get a little more management of our life. Yes, but the stream decade, that was another very common refrain in the show.

I I stumbled into the stream deck. I actually bought IT when I was making the keyboard misha field guide and they had added stream bix support. I said, you know, this is one of those things so i'm like, i'm not sure I need something like that.

I'll get one and play with IT and decide whether not to include IT in the field guide. And like within a few days I was like, oh, this is the greatest and now I have I have a whole flock of them. Yes.

you have a family. Or stream dex now, which is pretty cool.

What of mine left me? My daughter took my neo SHE needed IT for school, where she's a teacher. SHE was doing a bunch of stuff at school that was very automation at jay cent. So I I set up with him, taught her how to use IT. And now IT has IT has flown out of the nest, but otherwise I still have a bunch of them.

Yeah, I mean something I spotted recently as well which I have not yet had a chance to to purchase and play with but a logitech have a creative hub which looks very similar to a stream deck yeah ah and I am really curious is called the creative console are pulping to IT in the shower notes. But you get uh two physical devices with this. So there is one which has a dial, uh like a rotary dial.

And then at the top it's got another sort of squally happy downing and a couple of buttons on IT. And then on the others one, there are nine screen buttons and also pagination buttons at the bottom, going left and right. And i'm very curious about this.

They say that there are plugs available. And I did look, and there is a discord plugin, uh, and photoshop plug, you know, the a adobe creative of sweet and I think there's a Philip q one in beta. But i'm not sure that there is anything beyond that you know for real kind of home automation ally stuff as well, which you know personally is what I would be looking at as a curiosity, but still looks pretty cool.

So yeah, interested to see how this goes. I'm glad to see that somebody else is doing something that is so a kin to the stream deck. Not saying that IT IT needs direct competition, but IT IT is nice to see a an alternative to this up with a productivity focus versus streaming focus. But yeah, it's pretty ool.

yeah. I think that the idea that is great and competition is good. I was looking at text.

I was thinking, man, that dial alone might be useful to me. I'm already kind of in enough with buttons, but yeah, I don't think they are separately. I think you have to buy a maze.

No, no, you have to buy the pack of two together. And a the the thing that makes me pause in particular is, uh, it's a hundred and ninety nine pounds, I believe one hundred and ninety nine dollars, which is not the cheapest. You know I I have not checked the Price on the stream x studio recently, which is the the stream deck, the amount into a rack like a server rack and it's got two physical dials on in a whole bunch of buttons in two rows.

But um that I check online that one that one is eight hundred nineteen nine dollars so that one is I for the most expensive, the streamed that cell. Ah which has got thirty two buttons on that I think yeah four eight to thirty two that's two hundred fifty dollars, but that is thirty two buttons versus nine buttons. So yeah it's a it's it's not the cheapest.

And until the marketplace gets a little bigger, I personally would hold off from buying IT. But I wonder if this is gonna like the windows phone problem chicken in the act, there are no plugins because there are no users, and there are no users because there are no plugins. But at the same time, i'm limited on this space. I'm not putting something on my desk that I can definitely use on a day to day basis.

Yeah, i'm i'm pretty good on buttons right now. Yeah, yeah. But I do think the stream decade is is really an interesting thing for automation, and that wasn't really mate for that. But I know there you I guess, maybe because we make the show, but i've heard from so many people that are using street deck for exactly the kinds of .

things were talking about yeah and it's interesting that the dial pad, in particular part of the the you teh set up use as double batteries um like this is something because they have IT listed under the speaks con details theyve split them out into the two different things theyve got the M X creative of dolph in the M X C keypad and the uh dial pad uses two triple a battery ies and the keypad uses USB c i'm guessing because IT requires more power r than batteries um can provide.

But it's interesting that one is wireless and one is wired. It's yeah odd combination to me. But hey, i'm looking forward to seeing what legit within and hopefully, fingers, ross, that marketplace will take off and then not to just the future.

Yeah, another device that I tried over the run of the show that I don't think I actually talk about on the show because I didn't think IT was appropriate or is the loop dick and uh loop decks is like a really well made looking stream deck but is very customize to video editing and fatal editing. That's I think you it's called the creative tool for a reason. But this is like made of metal.

It's like it's heavy, the button feel firmer, the dial is very waited and nice um just a really nice piece of kit, but it's like over five hundred dollars and IT really isn't automation friendly IT, except for if you're like working in adobe creative sweet or final cut or you know something like that. Um but yes, there are other devices out there, but I feel like the stream deck really just scratches the edge. For people who want a tie automation to a button, that's another keyboard.

Yes, I think it's one of those things were gotten there early. And also the way that you can create a lot of the tools for IT, the plugins, a lot of I can you don't with javascript, T, A, which is just a really widely known programing language. And even if you don't necessarily use you know, standard real edge of a script every day, it's not that difficult if you're familiar with the language to regress a little bit, I call IT regress.

It's it's not but to take a few steps back from the nine cities of whatever framework IT is that you're used to using antigens, you know right some plain old java script and you know that's that's something that's pretty nice. So fingers cross. However, I haven't checked how to write logitech plugins for for their creative keypad, but I should take a look at that just out of curious .

ity at some point yeah why not? right?

yeah. I mean, i'm i'm gonna be pretty busy, but maybe maybe i'll find some time at some point.

okay. Brian writes in saying that he's been enjoying this in the show. He says, I do hope you can put together some resources for those of us who wish to continue learning more about automation on the mac c and IOS.

I look forward to many good things from the TV do in the future. Well, like we said earlier, we're going to be doing uh some coverage of this mac power users and and rows will be involved with that. Um we also have the you know the volt of automated episodes that that you can get. Yep, absolutely.

And so you know there's all of those automated and episodes, including the automated maximums, will not be going away. Uh, they're going to be sticking around on the website if I believe mick even have anything to say about IT. They don't like getting rid of these things. So you know all those episodes are still going to be there.

And yes, of course, we've done some episodes covering particular things that were announced to wwdc and so on and so forth, but also know how to use key or in some of the cable Price makers we review uh at the time you know that stuff that you can still go back and listen to even if you've listen to IT before and uh you know get some useful knowledge out of. And the other thing, of course that we should mention is, uh, still milla, he's spent on the show a few times, has his wonderful automated a i'm blanking on the correct word for IT that he used. But he's created automated transcription of automated episodes, all of the notes and everything compiled together. So I will make sure pop a link to that in the .

showers that the second t that's the ability involved of automated podcast. And and we he he knew when we are shutting down before we announce that and he's he's tidy that up. So it's just onna get Better.

But at some point, there's gonna upsetting repository that will cover the five years of episodes and you can go back and and look into things. In addition, rose and I are also doing other things that i've got a shortcut feel guy that's onna come out um probably three or four weeks after the show shut down. Talk about bad timing right but either way you know is what IT is and and roses doing stuff over um with a IOS today or ipad OS today .

and I O S today IOS today.

And you I mean you've always got stuff you're putting out too. You're making apps mean your company makes a automation friendly application. So just keep in touch with both of us. If you follow me at max parking out com, where should people look .

for got links to all the apps I was today and you know, all books and so on. And yeah, I will be making sure to update there a little more frequently when i've got a bit more free time to do so. As a listen of automated, you're probably at least marginally serious about data.

So shaming, you are interested in data, especially about the ways that continues to shape our world. You need to check out data and dialogues. A forward thinking show brought you by the folks of a calibre, the leader in data intelligence. You'll here first time from industry tightens innovators and executive some of the world's largest companies as they y've into the hottest st topics in data. And you're get insights into everything from popular stable such as A I governance in data sharing down to new more.

You ask questions like how do we ensure da redbook at a global scale? The most recent episode that I listen to is the power of a common data language, which talks about how to make sure that everybody in your organization is on the same page and understanding what different kinds of data are. And what I loved about IT is the fact that a lot of the topic stroked about on the show, and particular in this episode, just good practice for any large organisation, whether or not is to do with data.

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Okay, so we heard from Marcus saying, you guys talk about a lot of stuff, shortcuts, apple script, cwd, my strong and all these other tools. Which one should I start with? The question are with.

yeah. So I mean, my I would answer that question with another question, what platform are you looking to automate on and what problem are you trying to evolve? So i'd actually answered a question with two questions because IT really does depend if you're looking to automate something on the mac shortcut is there? Shortcut is fine, but IT doesn't necessarily have the same integration hooks that IT has on IOS.

In particular, if you are looking for something that runs automatically at a certain time or when you connect to a certain wifi at ork short macos can't do that, not on its own. IT needs to help her to help run that, you know, for example, key for my restaurant. So so if you're looking to, you know ultimate things on the mic then and you want automate to triggers, then I would suggest probably keyboard my stroh if you're looking to automate something that might B I O S or macos definitely shortcuts.

If you're looking something on I O S I problem, i'm probably going to recommend shortcuts. You know, you can branch hot was scripted. And so to do things with job script, if you are, are looking to automate something, text based drafts or B B edit would be my, my, my, my weapons of choice.

Probably drafts more so just because there is a whole bunch of actions in the action repository that you can download and install without having to write any code yourself. Um but yeah I mean IT really depends on what what solution is IT that you or what problem is that you're solving and what platform you trying to solve IT on. What about you, David?

Yeah I I think you're right on there. I would just start with the statement that don't learn automate vacuum like if you want learn to automate, find a problem to solve, and then use the the learning process to solve that problem and understand it's gonna take longer than expected the first three times. But like grow said, the problem that you're trying to solve a dictate the tool that you're trying to use.

And I think if you listen to the show, you've got a pretty good idea what they are like. Another one I would add to rose's laces. Um if you have file based automation like you wanted deal files, look at hazel.

They came out with a new version. So there there's a lot of different tools out there that solve different problems. But the the language of automation is common to all the tools. I mean, usually there is a trigger and there's an action. So what are you going to have triggered the automation, whether it's you press in a key or a clock hit in a certain time of day or your wifi connecting to a certain network or whatever IT is. So that's your trigger.

And then what is that going to run off and do and and separate those in your brain and just figure out you the action said that you want in fool that does that and then find a way to hook IT to a trigger and and if you solve a couple different problems, you may learn a couple different. Two was before, you know, if you're an automated so it's not um not that bad. But but if you attach IT to solve in a problem, I feel like it's a lot easier.

yes. yeah. I think the other thing is we should probably give some general advice um for people who are looking to you know dark automating things and solve automation problems.

And I I would really recommend um take us to back and look what IT is you want to automate and break them down into chunks and pack one of those chunks and start with that. If you get stuck, pause, go look at another chunk and try that and then wouldn't you've got like two or three chunk, then you can sort of bounced between. I wouldn't recommend having any more than that until you've actually solved one of them.

But the chances are if you break me down in small enough steps, you will find something that somebody else has done out there is similar that can help solve that problem. Um so if you got an automation, you want an automation. The whenever you downloaded your electricity bill IT, we named IT, moves IT into a particular folder and uh adds a task to omi focus or whatever your toast major choices to say pay the bill okay, well, that's great.

That's a really good thing. But I would start with, okay, well, downloading the electricity bill like let's sleep that is manual because scripting logged into websites to dead load files and so on, IT can be done. I am not going to recommend doing IT just because like it's it's gonna get finikin at some point and things are going to a get broken because you will have to, you know click at the image with keep all my star war script the brows er and that's a lot of work.

So start with the file downloads. Well, that something you can solve with hazel, hazel can watch your downloads folder and I can grab the file. So the next piece of the puzzle is, you know, when we naming IT, right, renaming IT a moving IT, well, those are two actions in hazle.

And so you can start with the renaming part. And if you can't get that to work, then you pause and you, you, you do the moving part. And then there is a final part of adding a task to your task manager.

Well, maybe to start with, the task that you are to your task manager is really simple. It's just pay electricity. Bill IT doesn't have any other information than that.

And then maybe you make a little more fun and you say, pale electricity bill and use the name of the file and you add the path to the file so you know where to find the file on your on your hard drive, on your on on your computer to a the note of the task. And then at some point, maybe you can add hay to two hundred and thirty seven dollars. So what? I know how much you can make IT more complicated as you go, but keep IT simple to start with and then work upwards.

Yeah I mean, that's like this is all a problem um Emily road and SHE says sometimes I listen to show sounds like you're frustrated with shortcuts.

Does that comes through? I guess IT does but h SHE says, you know, what would you fix? What's the problem? And I think what he is asking, i'm going to put my spin on IT it's like, are right, rose, tim cooks gonna call you up today and say, rose, I just listen to the automated, so smart about this stuff, i'm going to play in charge of the shortcut team. Resources are unlimited. What are you gonna go to when you show up your first day to take over?

okay. Well, first thing is, uh, I don't want to be the head of shortcuts so i'm going na say, hey, can we please keep Michael gorbals who is the the head of the shortcuts team and uh at the moment and I feel like he's actually doing a really good job, but what I would like uh to do to start with actually is to have a team that actually understands in no shortcuts, processing the shortcuts feedback that they receive.

Because I am very aware that I ve felt feedback that has gone into a black, all because the people processing IT did not realize that the words that I used to describe this problem are the words that somebody else know are essentially the same as the words somebody else is used to describe a different problem. So there is a uh a particularly horrible book where two different applications have a shortcut action with the same name. Those actions can occasionally get swapped and so this means that um you know if for whatever reason there is an APP with the action run shortcut which push cut, for example, had uh then that could get swapped with the shortcuts native run shortcut action.

And that caused havoc with my automated until I realized what the problem was. Fortunately, I didn't take us that long to figure that out and that we re named to the push cut shortcut action because I figured out what was happening and that those were randomly getting swapped. And that bug is the first place I would start.

And then and then from there I, you know, take a look at the the automation triggers. And can we bring those to? Michael s, can we bring any automation triggers to macco? S, can we make safari a bit more script ble? And you know, those parts of the mail on macos doesn't have the same things that male on I O S.

has. And I understand there two different applications, but can we add somebody to the male team that understands shortcuts and can learn how male works and can bring everything together for that? I think that is really where I would be starting.

Yeah, that's my starting point too is the interrogation order of shortcuts between platforms because the the mac and the mac feels like a very different placer shortcuts than iphone and ipad may. That's Frankly why I have two term feel guides because you they're just different. They don't work the same.

And it's very easy for people who are trying to get IT into this to get confused because you make IT and then that works on the on the phone, but then IT doesn't work on the mac advice. And I feel like they should intervene for you, like when you have an action that doesn't work on the mac, maybe they have some alternative that can run or you know and you know sadi shark t users that know of the problem. And no, there are options often put in uh platform checks in the shortcut.

Like if i'm on mac do this, if i'm my iphone to this. But that's very tedious and you'd have to know that. And for a lot of people learn in, sure, because they don't.

And so IT just breaks for them and you're not even sure why. And then they give up on shortcut. So I feel like if I was in charge, I would put a lot of effort into can not getting that fixed. So you know, in a year like in a year from now, we could say, okay, you're never gona have that problem.

If you try to call an action that doesn't work on your platform, it's gna give you a message explaining or it's gona do something else instead that IT thinks makes sense, but it's just it's gonna sell IT for you and not just not work going to give you any feedback. Um and the other thing I think I would do is um I think I would make the documentation Better and more interactive because I think a lot of people come in a short cuts, are not programmer. You know there are a lot of people who are just learning this stuff and you know the the documentation on individual action I think is too sparse.

IT doesn't explain IT enough, and I can figure this out because i've been doing a long time, but people new to IT don't know what the hack and in those terms mean. And I think they should write Better documentation for non programing humans. H into shortcut.

So so those are the two things I ply work on. But I agree with you, I think they're doing a great job. They've got a lot know they have bit off a lot bringing shirk cuts and now putting on, on platforms.

And I think over all, they're doing good work. But but those things like like rose is talking about the safari, how the safari actions don't work on mac drives me nuts. But that's kind of part of the international ability of platforms. You just kind of make that stuff work and and i'm sure it's sarten down somewhere on a White board in cupertino and it's thread easy for you to send a podcast he had just fix IT. But yeah, that would be the thing I would make a parody .

yeah and it's one of those things in particular for the apple actions. You know I I would love to see this also happen for you know other APP actions where you gotten APP that you can only install on iphone and you so you try to run the short cutt on ipad and IT doesn't work and you try to run IT on your back and IT really doesn't work.

But the apple actions in particular, those ones not being the same across platforms, that also just something that is a really, you know, it's a big downer for somebody when they try to follow a shortcut tutorial, but they're on their mark and they don't soly know what they doing gets so they are like, okay, well, from of my market is easy because I can have the two screens open. So, you know, they look at one and they look at the other and there are going, this action doesn't exist. Uh, and I can find IT and that that the also defected.

The search for in shortcuts for actions works differently on macs to IOS drives me crazy on IOS. If you type the name of an APP and you search, and then you click on the APP IT reset research basically and IT shows you all the actions from that APP Michael s if you type the name APP IT filled through the apple list and then you attack, click on the APP IT only shows you the actions for that APP that match the search results. And if you click on little x in the search bar to like, remove your your search parameter IT unselected the application that you ve chosen them.

But strives me insane every single time I try to use IT on machakos because i'm they're going like I know i'm looking for an action from this APP and it's near the bottom of the list. So i've searched for and I clicked on IT and I can't see the action. And so if I click on the cross, I then have to score away down the apple list again and that just drives me bonkers. And I understand this is not a difference between health work on Michael s. And IOS, but I feel like they could have made this one a little bit more friendly.

You know, it's i'm coming up with more too as we talk about this because I think that they they really what they need there like kind of uh shirt t ambassadors and developer enthusiast people or analyte you call them developer relations maybe, but they should have really knowledgeable shortcuts.

People that can go to the internal apple teams like there is really no excuse for all the apple apps that to have really robust shirt t support like they should have somebody on the inside going to those teams so they can say, okay, i'm a shortcuts expert, your a safari expert, you know, let's take two weeks and just really get this nail down and they should also do that externally. There should be resources available if you're an apt available and say, well, i'd like to have short cuts support, but i'm not sure with the best way to do IT or what would be most useful to the users. And apple should say, IT, well, certainly you call this person and they'll get on the phone with you and talk you through IT and give you some sample code and blow blow block.

no. And maybe they are doing that. But but IT feels like if they are, they not doing enough of IT.

Yeah, i've seen a lot of Philippine talk about, you know how how trick is. And the'd also been burned by, you know, creating shirk actions that work as one kind up in ten and or you know as this kind of shortcut. And then you know they have to transition to that kinds shortcut and then they have to transition again.

And you know that it's understandable that there are a little you know hesitant to you know immediately hop onto the new thing. But at the same time, you know apple is doing their best to try and make IT easier and the new kinds of uh short cuts actions that the ape tense are you pretty nice and I am really glad to see to be onest that they are a chunk of the backbone for apple intelligence, you know providing the information. And so that is needed.

You know how fully will see all of this time together at some point in the nativism future. But at the moment, IT is know still a little painful and thorney for users who don't necessarily you realize or know all of the things that they would be expected to know. I got bit the other day, David.

I created a short cut on my phone, tried to run IT on my ipad, and I crashed. And I was there going, what the hackers, the problem with this, turns out I forgot to download the apple, my ipad. That was, if was a download at the apple, my ipad, everything was fine.

Yeah, but that would be really nice of shortcuts could see. Hey, so this action in this shirt t is using, you know, is is, is not installed, but can be installed. And if IT, when I try to run IT would say, hey, this APP is like X, Y, Z, APP is required and not installed.

Would you like to downtown IT? Yes, because that also would then go great, you know, over when I share in h shortcut with you, if you don't have one of the absent stall that the shortcut uses, you don't just get unknown action like you could see a little play holder for if you open the shortcut to edit and when you try to run IT that I would try to IT would prompt to download the APP from the APP store that would be really nice um but yeah IT doesn't quite do that. Yes, the fingers crossed.

Some of these pain points will get cleaned up at some point in the in the future. And I know the shortest team are working really hard on that. And I know you know all the teams, apple, sometimes i'm pretty certain that journal is just like one person uh, working on IT, like maybe a couple.

But I don't think it's a team really. I think it's a few people um a bit like the graphic calculator, a walls when they broken to build the graphing calculator for the mac. Um but you know that the journal lap is is pretty awesome.

But I can't blame you know the future will pers working on IT for not having great shortcut support yet because they have to work on the whole journal APP, which keeps being headlined at wwdc, and they've got limited resources. So you know, to be clear, I don't know how many people on the journal team at apple, but my suspicion is that it's it's very few. And so IT would be nice if there there could be some extra support within apple.

Four of those, yes. And and IT is a trillion other company like they could bring on a few more people to to do this. H john ritson, sorry to see the automatons go.

Is there ever any automation that you've given up on? All right, it's good question, john. Straight to the heart.

You know, where have we failed as automated? I i'll go first on this one. I often struggle with web based automation stuff like the classic.

Go and download my credit card statement every month, then you know O C R the PDF and put IT in the specific voter and all itself. Um I find web uh services is very inconsistent and some companies I do this with and IT works like a charm. And other companies, for whatever reason, the way y've coded their website, IT hardly ever works and IT just makes me nuts.

And when I hit those ones where I feel like after the bucket every month, I just stopped doing that. So that that is an example of an automation I given up on um anything that requires constant fiddling uh, as an automation to me as a failed automation. IT needs to be consistent.

I shouldn't have to rewrite IT every month and and that's a good example for me. How about you rose? You have any automation you've ever going up on, maybe you don't.

I mean, it's one of those things were usually the approach that i'll take if I can't solve the automation problem, which I frequently cannot because there are things outside of my control as much as I would like uh, to pretend that I can control everything I absolutely cannot but uh, whenever R I run into something that I absolutely IT, for whatever reason, i'll still see if I can automate a bit of IT.

You know, I can't automate everything like I cannot automate physically replacing the batteries ies in my smart doll locks. That is not something I am able to do, but I can absolutely have myself send a push of fiction every hour when i'm at home and i'm not to sleep, reminding me to go and change those battery door locks when they ve run low because that is something that is pretty for an important that if I don't do that, then I could book, get locked out of my house. Don't worry folks, I do have the back up battery.

I've got one back up by Terry in my car, and i've got one stored with a friendly neighbor, which IT seems like a good idea. It's a nivel battery to work as a spare if needed, but, uh, that you can connect from the outside. There is sort of two pins that you can you hold the battery on to to still make the smart lock work. But you know, I cannot automate replacing those batteries.

I could probably build a robot that has double a batteries in IT that then when he gets a notification to say that the the battery is low, knows which lock to go to, that would be a huge problem to figure out unscrews the cover again, big problem to figure out, takes out the other batteries, puts them somewhere to go to the backy recycling in place and then insert new batteries ies. But this seems like a whole lot of big problem and I I can't do that um but yeah sometimes it's not worth solving problems. Sometimes it's also worth considering solving problems the other way, other way.

I had A N issue with my robot back in recently where IT doesn't automatically change daylight savings. I don't quite understand why I can automate change daylight savings, but that means that whenever the clocks change twice year, the the automation run at the wrong time. I recently said this problem, not by looking in an automatically changing the time zone on IT or doing is like that.

I took the automation out of their APP and I did in homework. I don't wish those automatically each each of time. So sometimes solving the problem differently is the right solution to the problem or avoiding the problem.

But yeah, there are some things that I ve given up on for sure, like automatically changing these batteries. That's not gonna happen. I am just not going to do IT, but I will absolutely not fine myself to death until I find actually going change the battery.

I absolutely love, though, that you considered maybe I could build a robot that would do that for me.

I know that IT is technically possible to build a robot to replace these batteries ies like I am one hundred percent aware that this is a possibility, but it's gonna take a lot of work like i'm going to have to do at the whole point of different models for 3d print term。 Get to have to by mechanical parts, i'm going to have to program IT, and i'm gonna to think of like a brain to run IT on.

And this gets into the realm of I am spending a lot of time and a lot of money and a lot of effort to automate something that really only needs doing every six to nine months. And IT takes me two minutes. And one of the things that i've also done to automate solving this problem is i've put a screwdriver in my battery bag.

So I have a zip bag that contains all the batteries I need for smart ham stuff, which is labelled like there are bags inside of that, which is labeled C R, two or two and know db tripoli eta. I've just put a screwdriver in that bag. And then I don't even like, once I grab the baty bag, I don't need to go fine, a screwdriver or anything. I just grab the battery back on crew thing, puts a new batteries and drop the other batteries into little pop by the television, which is whether recycle battery or batteries recycle go and done that a simple um yeah I I I I I was curious from a technical perspective, vst, to whether or not I could build bot. And I realized very quickly that IT was very technically possible.

But also like it's just not a good idea because what happens if like I moved the robot and then I had to figure out, like where to go to now, but like, I ve put a new piece of furniture in the way, because only to run every sixty nine months, and like the two door knocks in my living room moved the same hype, but the door lock up, my front doors at is cona different height, as that would need to be able to go up and down and sometimes laundry y dying in the whole way so that we get in this way. And yeah, IT gets messy quickly. And that just, yeah seems like a bad idea, a fun theoretical exercise, but not a good practical exercise to automate.

I find the fact that you've got like the screwdriver with the battery is very satisfying. I do the same thing like and having labels on them. Maybe this is a common thing to automate that.

We just like to have our stuff organized and everything work belongs. This episode, the automated is branch to you by linking jobs, find the qualified candidates you want to talk to faster poster, jump for free today, just go to linking. That comes flash automated.

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It's easy to see why two point five million small businesses use linked in for hiring post your job for free at linking, not calm flash automated that's once again linked in dcom flash automates to post your job for free terms and conditions apply go check IT out and linked in that com flash automated and thank you linked in for all of your support of the automated podcast. Rose, last segment of the automated let's talk about the future of automation. I thought we would break IT down by platform, starting with the mac.

You you know both lovers of using the apple macintosh sh and though it's come out on this show, but I I feel like we're kind of in a really i'm calling IT a golden age. Maybe it's just A A preview of what's to come, but uh, over the run of this show, not only we get more automation tools like shirt ts for the mac, they all started talking to each other. So these days that is so easy to put together automation that do diverse and different things, you in the various tools and getting back to my tool, tool belt and allergy. But I feel like the max and great shape for automation these days.

What do you think? yes. yeah. I mean, there's just choices like all of the choices. And I love that. Uh, I really do because IT IT means that I don't necessarily have to use hassle to solve my automated files, uh, problems.

I could use key map the answer to a, the question of which do I use is both, because IT depends on what I want to do. What the file wants is been added there. But the fact that there is just so much choice, and you know, the apple script still there doesn't seem to be going away.

It's still able to be added uh to applications now and so on. And the fact that shirt cuts automation. So there is well and a lot of these uh, tools, you know Better touch tool, uh, gastro hazel extra, they're all adding support for each other or they're able to support each other through apple script or your old schemes and so on.

IT means that there's just a huge wealth of interconnected possibilities, which means that whatever you start by learning on the mac, unless you start with automate to work close, which mean apple didn't make a point of saying they will be going away and will be being converted into shortcuts at some point. I feel like what whatever you start with, you'll be able to you know dive in and really, you know use whatever and then build on that with other tools as necessary. And as you would like.

what about mobile, iphone, ipad, the smartphones in general? Where do you see the current state of automation? And where do you see IT going?

I mean, current state is pretty good. You know if for all our griping about shortcuts earlier, you know if getting Better every year, they are adding more support of the things and they're listening. So IT that remember when we first gott shortcut s automation and were the actions that we had a and would change watch face, we still have the action to change watch face.

But the fact that you could then have a focus mode, turning on trigger, changing a watch face, and then the next year, they didn't sure, look at, they didn't stop you being able to do IT via shirt t actions. But they listened and they said, oh, this is a really cool part of focus modes like we should add this to focus modes as a filter. And then that has expanded.

So we've got more focus mode filters. So when i'm working, I can have my drafts uh work uh work space specially set to my my working workspace and so on. And so fourth and I feel like that just a really nice fun thing that has got Better. And from the fact that we've been listening ing to us and more and more apps are adding support for these things as well um which is is just really nice that this is a thing that has happened and has got Better. And I also feel like with you know apple intelligence and apple tense really being the backbone of IT, we've got more to see from shortcuts and the not .

too distant future. Yeah um I I agreed mobile is not as robust as the mac there. So we don't have apple events. And I will forever regret that they didn't think about putting something like that technology.

And in the early days of the of IOS, and I think it's probably too late to do IT now, but we've come a long way in automation on mobile, and they're dressing automation differently than they do on the mac because I think phone users are not gonna want to write an apple receipt, you know, just doesn't mean really makes sense. So I think it's a lot Better shape than IT was. And I do think the future is interesting.

And we're going to talk about this in an automated smacks, but just the idea of the up intense that that's the common language between automation and and shortcuts actions and apple intelligence. You know, I I think there's gonna be interest developments of that in the future. Um what about web automation? We've talked about this often out on the show, but there are websites out there that kind of use web based automation that glue together web services and they've they've grown throughout the run of the show. I mean, there's more out and there were and they we're powerful than they used to be. Where do you see the state of that?

Well, that's a good question. And honestly, I think it's just gonna bigger. I think we're gonna a see more places realizing that building everything themselves is a chunk of work and having their own integrations with every, in particular, social media platform under the sun. We saw this when twitter suddenly started locking its A P I down and saying, not you, not you, not you. All of those like ticket systems and things like that, that had integrations with twitter and all of these ult, all these platforms that had, you know, I use twitter to do this thing suddenly couldn't anymore.

And this was also, uh, big problem for a lot of the users where, you know you know now because twitter is blocked to a band stuff like that, you've got a lot of companies that are on threats then knew some places you got loads people on blue sky and other cases you got loads people on missed on. Well, adding support for all three of those to any system, that's a lot of work. But if you can form that out to says happier or make more of this and that and they can add the support.

And that also means that you know you as the user who wants to connect that to your ticket system, so that wants somebody post your method, or they send a thread on blue, a blue sky, or or threads tagging you. Then you can have that function into, you know, an automated system. You can create one automation duplicated and just change the trigger.

Or you could even add multiple triggers to the same automation and have them, you know, all flow through the same way. And I think that that is something that you know is is is a nice possibility. And now i'm not saying, of course, that you know this platform shouldn't build their own integrations with you.

Whatever IT is that they want to do things with. It's all those things where you know you get what you pay for. And if you're relying on the third party service to do your work for you, you're not necessary gonna the best results.

But at the same time, you know, for for a really small company that was to build something, it's gonna get Better. We've already seen things like a good links, a really great little application that I use all the time for storing the things that I would like to read later. And IT automatic deal is the articles as well.

You know this is not necessarily web automation persae, but it's got Brown er plug games for multiple browsers, not just safari, but it's also got firefox on crime plugins. And the fact that that's a thing that and up to look can do and have that you know have the data still starting cloud um and seem to using apple service between the devices is pretty cool. So I think we're going to see a lot more from these. And I suspect that here if this then that and make aren't going going to be going anywhere, anytime soon, but we may see some alternative to them. What do you think.

uh, I am with you. I I think that web services are gonna coming increasingly important. I think theyve, they've emerged over the last five years since a real force.

I mean, back in the old days, the platform or is between mac and windows as well that all became irrelevant when so many of our tools are now web based. And I feel like um the needs of A I servers and things that kind of now emerging are gonna make that even more so. So yeah, these things are going to be even more useful. And the the beauty of IT is if you learn automation, even in just like shortcuts, the same sorts of language and ideas transfer his web services. So start that hard to to to jump over to the web automation um what do you think of apple's commitment to automation as we sit here and going forward?

I is what other things where they don't necessarily talk about IT as you know a big thing you know, they are not continually saying like yeah, we're committed to automation. We want to uh you know be automating things all the time. But the fact that they're talking about apple intelligence and so on, and you've made up intense such a big backbone for that.

You know I I think IT is pretty important to them. So I think we're going to see more and more coming from this. And I think that might even be a little you sneaky in some ways.

And i'm not saying that is a bad thing um but I am saying that as a as a good thing where you know if if they you know as they've added these things, you know they're making IT more and more possible for people to automate things without i'm really thinking about automation. You know my mom and my dad don't think about changing their watch faces as an automation IT. Just something that happens based on the focus mode that they selected on their phones.

They went in set IT up and it's not automation to them. It's just a thing. So yeah, I I think so something that's going to a improve for sure as time goes on.

Yeah and I do you think automation will take on different forms as we're going to the future and the technology gets more powerful? But I think historically, apple was not particularly interested in automation. I mean, the old days they were like um like back in the early days of the mac when they had the time with the publishing.

IT was as a big part their business. I think they lost interest in IT for a while. And for whatever reason, that was reignited with the purchase of workflow.

And I think they are especially the shortcuts seem I think there are people, apple, that are one hundred percent dedicated automation. But um if I were a handicap t from the outside not knowing any interview stuff, but. I feel like the real commitment at apple right now is apple intelligence. And but automation and shortcuts gets to serve the wake of that because of the common intense language itself. So I think automation is gonna be a big beneficiaries of with their focus on right now, even if IT is isn't the big focus, if that make sense?

Yes, absolutely. And I think that, that is the thing. You know, it's a little bit of a trojan horse, but not in a bad way, in a pretty good, good way. So I think that's that's pretty cool for how it's all gonna.

The last question I have, the last kind of naval gazing question is the focus of automation so often is like company White. Like if you talk to people who do IT, they do all sorts of automation to set up new computers and all sorts of cool stuff that they need to do every day. And they make their lives much easier through automation.

I think if you look into automation and learning IT so often, it's this this big like enter Price style automation that is the focus of of products. Our goal on this show has always been not that, but user automation. Like people who just using their computers to get their work done that want to be able to make a good little faster, a little more efficient um uh where do you see the future of user based automation?

Think we're think we're in good shape. In fact, i'll go first year. Yeah yeah I I think I think we're in great shape. Yeah I I think that um like sank like this golden age on the mac and the increasing um on ramp to automation that we're getting like you know even just like the shortcuts gallery is so useful for people who don't even know how to do a shark t they can downloaded and use something immediately. And and i'd like to think that people are going na become more curious about this as the tools can be easier. So I feel like user focus automation, which is the stuff that you're doing if you're listening to the show, only going to get more popular over time.

Yeah I I think I have to agree where you know it's it's something that it's not necessarily uh a big um you know thing that people are going to be thinking about at the forefront of their their minds but especially with A I becoming a much bigger thing, people are starting to realize that you know they can't necessarily just sit there and you know we arrange data inspections every day, but maybe they should figure out a way of scripting, rating the data in the spread sheets or filtering the data in the spreadsheet.

And scaling up and automation is a big part of that. Whether or not people are ready to admit IT and give IT that name is an entirely super er point. I think a lot of people don't understand want to think about automation because they think that means jobs are going away.

I personally see that it's a way of creating new jobs and IT doesn't mean that the old ways are gonna away anytime soon. But you know, it's just what those things where, you know, I think we're gona see more and more automation come into play. In particular, when people start getting nervous about A I taking their jobs, they're gonna ways to make themselves Better and writing scripts, automation that they know how to run and that they've set up and can figure to meet business needs is our personal needs.

Is gonna really useful? I also think we got a lot more personal automation stuff in the smart hemisphere as well because he is an accessibility feature, you know not having to get up and go to the door to press the button, the lights which to turn off, uh, the lights which to turn off the light is something that is a thing that is needed by a large chunk of the population. And it's, you know, nice that we have this possibility and it's becoming more more accessible to everybody and that is becoming more affordable and easier to configure and set up. And I think that that's very cool, hoping we can see more of this.

Well, you know what I do know. I want to think all of the rest of the show, this is the final episode. We had a crazy idea what was at five, six years ago.

Let's make a show just about automation. And you guys came along with us on this wonderful right. And we've got so much great feedback and ideas from you and interacting with you over the years.

Thank you so much for uh, joining us on this journey. Brows and I love making this show. Don't get us wrong.

We loved IT, but it's just were both super busy. And to make IT right um prinkly because we love IT is why we're shutting IT down. Um I want to think our sponsors today, notion linked in talent, data, citizens, everybody keep automating.

When you talked in the show about places you can go to keep following us and continue your automation journey, please do that. And h signing off for the last time. Thanks for listening.

Ye, everybody.