Chat_117-Bitcoin Threat Vectors on Final Settlement
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The two thousand and thirteen fourteen era with conference stuff like people like everybody's like where and mask everybody. Nobody's bring and nobody y's connecting in the wifi. They're like you set up wifi, you just turn us. You just try to getting everybody y's device as I was like everybody who was crazy paranoid um like to c level fair anode back then and all that went away everybody just got complacent is such a fun nerdy thing and I think it's I really important to remember what level of attack and what level of this is cash man, you like this is literal cash.

What is up, guys? Welcome back to bitcoin audible. I am guys, one the guy who has read more about bitcoin than anybody else. You know, we are getting into a chat episode today. This one is with cam and brian from bitcoin on ramp or from the from final the final settlement show from the guys that big coin on ramp.

And I have an a fillide link actually with bitcoin on ramp because I I know those guys, I trust them and they run a really cool service, especially for people who aren't quite ready to dig into a fully sovereign lt. Sig, but want to get the benefit that multiple, I gives you an an extremely strict and distributed keys. They don't have to trust one counterparty or one company or even one jurisdiction.

They have specifically cross jurisdictional mult signal just as a service. That's actually what this esperit is about is not about big on on RAM at all, but it's about how to protect your bitcoin. I think about multi sig protecting your keys against different scenarios and in different environments.

And because of that, we end up talking a lot about the guy who broke into the room and kind of the situation and the what exactly happened there and how to protect yourself going forward. And one of the big things, which I I pretty sure I talk about this in the episode, I can't remember because we talk, we continue to talk after about a number of these things. We stayed on and just kept chatting about this.

And one of the things that I want to say and make sure that I reiterate this, and you may hear me say this in the show, is that my camera was the biggest weapon that I had that I didn't use. And how powerful IT is just being able to find him on the security footage so that we could begin to get an idea of what he did and what had been going on with huge, because that answered so many questions are still plenty of questions left. But having that camera on in recording the situation is unbelievably valuable.

And I should have had his face when we couldn't find him in any other security camera. We could not place him or didn't not have a camera that was close enough to see his face. I was standing right in front of him, and I could have got out my camera, and I knew something weird was going on.

That should have been my reaction IT should have been my motion memory, should have been like, what's going on? Turn on the camera. So we do talk about that sort of stuff too.

And just like very practical security on top of multi sig and then all of the different dynamics in the variances of multi sig that you can do and how you can make this easy versus overcomplicating IT the risks, like all of this stuff, because not only is IT far more relevant right now in my situation and how I want to think about things going forward, but I think everybody just, we're back into a bull market. The Price is up. This, the whole spaces is about to go crazy.

It's running into the political and financial world at a crazy pace right now. We need to be thinking about security. We need to be thinking about attack vectors.

And it's time for else to be paranoid. Again, we need to be paranoid. Cyp tank is protecting our bitcoin, and we need to think about that.

And we need to utilize the tools that have been made easy so so that we can use them. And that's basically what this shows about. So I hope this is really valuable.

I thought this was a really important discussion, and they hit me up like, we should talk about this. And I was like, absolutely would be great. And of course, also like I satellite the company, if if you're interested, if the their service is something this relevant, I havena filter link right down.

And I think there's I think there's a discount and things like ten percent discount, I could be wrong, I don't remember, but I haven't a fully code for them. So if you want to help out the show and you want to try out their service, which don't really talk about that much in the show bit, you'll get some details if you want to try that out. That link is right down there in description as well as a bunch of other trusted services and tools and products that I use in the space.

Uh, and that's a great way to help out to show aside from just sharing IT out, telling everybody and you know posting your own social pick out. Thank you guys for everyone who does a shout out to everybody who boost me on found, by the way, have been read some really great comments. Thank you. Good to hear some guys we're super supportive about uh, basically everything has been going on as awesome. So shout out all you guys whose dream acts and boost on film with that, let's go here and get into two da's on bitcoin threat vectors with a team at bitcoin on RAM.

Welcome back to final settlement. Everyone is his absent sixteen great show for you guys today. We have the great guy swan, prolific the coin educate and and host of bitcoin auto, which i'm sure many of you are familiar with. Um we have lots to get to today but IT is you somewhat of an important day election day, uh, here in the united states. And so IT .

is social gonna so fast .

today to do scrolling .

today and all the customers are I mean.

it's been a crazy just few weeks few weeks in times like you can't you can't look at anything .

objectively and .

say like this means anything. So it's been a world wind of a few weeks leading up to this um but yeah welcome to the show guy. Happy to you and will be a great conversation. But on the on the topic of the election, I mentioned before we hit record, I wrote A A piece for onp about a year ago today and then IT was called a political money.

And I was really looking at bittorrent, you from its foundational level that the core protocol itself is is in my mind a political in many ways, just in terms of, you know, at the core of you're trusting math instead of fallible humans, right? And part of what I also vote about is, is looking at the trajectory of traditional, as most important, the dollar that has become increasingly policy zed over the past several decades. And bitcoin stands in contrast to that, in that, you know, at its core, is harder to politicize.

But the interesting .

paradox that I called out was that, and I thought this about twelve months ago, but I was really, really past twelve to twenty four months where I started to see bitcoin become politicise in the sense of certain politicians understanding what IT represented to a certain cohort of voters and that being really freedom money at its core um and so you know those politicians latching onto IT as a talking point, something they would um be willing about sure if they think that they could win those votes.

So guy, I am very curious to get your thoughts on on this concept of a bitcoin being a political. But then the the very clear trajectory that we've seen of you know the past, uh, year or two where it's really bitcoin has shifted the over in window in some sense where politicians are talking about this regularly. Now like I think we just rewind four years like that seems kind of insane that that's where we at today yeah but yeah we love you thought on any of yes.

So I I I think i've probably had post and maybe even episodes on the show where I talked about like bitcoin as a political money because like from a purely like practical since or um I I guess technical sense from just pure like what is bitcoin, there's no politics right? IT is genuinely a political money.

IT does not and cannot care about anything whether you talk about like the dollar being politicized and is a great example because you can see the dollar is literally being used as a political weapon against people, because IT is permissions ed. And because IT is controlled, IT can be selectively manipulated for a certain cohorn like so that someone who has the wrong political opinion or lives in the wrong direct a jurisdiction literally does not use the same money. IT doesn't work the same.

And in that sense, like bitcoin, is sure a political money. But the the thing that gets me about this, and I kind of go back and forth between whether or not it's an accurate description, because a lot of politics is about controlling other people. A lot of political ideology is about everyone should do this, and if they don't, the state should force them.

And in that, since bitcoin can't be a political in that environment, like saying a gun is a political short, from a technical sense, there is no politics and a gun, but between a socialist and an individualist, somebody who actually believes in freedom, a gun is a very political tool. You know, like, so when it's kind of boots on the ground, which political ideology does IT actually defend or enforce, like from an individual perspective, is totally a political. Like, whether you are a socialist, or whether you are, you know, freedom loving, whatever you are, crazy, righting cona light supreme es, or a nazi, or a russian or a kid in china doesn't matter.

IT is perfectly a political according to the individual, but according to the group, there are very different ideologies that can be either defended like a socialist, can defend themselves and do everything like a politically. With bitcoin, the socialist ideology cannot sustain itself using bitcoin, because IT literally negates one of their fundamental tools of collective control, the most important tools of collective control. So it's weird because but like an add an individual technical like just purely what is IT level of course it's a political IT doesn't do anything IT doesn't have a notion of who who is using IT.

That's why we say, you know, but in is for everyone, right? Can't persecute you, free your religion or your sexual orientation or anything like that. But from a collective sense, when many people are using bitcoin, there are certain political ideologies that just won't work.

And that's a really interesting dynamic. And that makes IT hard for me to say, like I could only completely understand the argument on both sides, you know like whether IT is a political money or very, very political money in a certain regard. Um so I guess maybe it's like the scale or um we are in kind of like the layers of politics you're talking about and how because .

yeah is sort of what you're getting at incorrectly if i'm wrong. But like for the individual, like you're saying, like bitcoin as a tool is a political, but if you fast forward, I guess, big coin adoption to IT being more of a ubiquity tool and an an an entire community or say contrary is using bitcoin, then there are some parameters within which IT made. It's not that it's political, the tool, but it's there are certain political realms where that could go in, in a fully decline ized world. Is that kind of what you're getting?

Yes, yes. And have a Better way. Say maybe maybe the way to say is from the individual perspective, biton is completely, completely apolitical, but the and less like bit on the thing or the money.

But bitcoin as a network is actually a set, is actually a political structure, is actually a set of rules in all politics says is a set of rules. Vicky is the network is a set of rules that is inherently political because IT is in that environment. It's rules about who owns what, what how you determine ownership and who has the rights to do what in the network. That's a political institution. It's just one that doesn't .

have ideology. Then that book on represents a meritocrat, right guys. It's not a system. If your system that your supporting is one based on you know, socialism or communism or is some you know you know the fifth pillar of the coming is manifesto is central banking.

So if those are similar core cannons of your group or like what you about individual level, this bitcoin system in network is not going to work for you and doesn't line with the way that you want to um you know try to Better the world whatever your aims are rather than the ferrous or in your mind, good because you you can do things such as redistribute wealth out. Well, yes, you don't have that centralization of control that allows you to redistribute resources and know in whenever way you see fit again, whether you percy, that to be for Better, for worse. Bitcoin does not allow that for Better, for worse, and we would say for far Better. But the playing field is equal level and the rules are fixed and the money is fixed.

And it's kind of like a everyone has equal before the network or everyone has equal before the cypher graphs. Like outside of that, you know it's your obligation, it's your responsibility to deal with that. But in the context of bitcoin, IT doesn't matter if you can sign for its yours because the rules are independent of the is IT is a completely unique and completely independent set of property rise system of property rights in the digital realm in my opinion, and I think that inherently can't be a political from the top down view but from a personal perspective, like from the individual using bitcoin. There is no politics in bitcoin, you know and so it's it's a very, very interesting thread to pull down for many times, many times a long time yeah and .

and it's it's also been interesting that I think you know something that supports everything that we just walk through is that there's no IT is hard to estimate the the size of this cohort.

But there's a cohort now in amErica where IT bitcoin support for bitcoin is, you know these people are single issue voters and so is that political like if if you know if this is the only thing a certain code or growing cohorn of the country cares about, um then it's entered the political realm in the sense of the existing parties. The existing political infrastructure needs to now consider this thing. And so that just been a fascinating thing to watch. Plays out certainly makes .

a politically important. yes. You know, I certainly puts IT on the political playing field. It's it's a ball in play that's .

not sure and it's unna to me. I was talking about this this morning, like I would say over the summer, you know after after nash will, I think there was um sort of the expectation that the game there we all like to talk about would play out and issue. And I don't think we really saw that to the extent that maybe people expected to back then in terms of the democrats, uh yeah trying to match trumps um favor and excitement about the the big point community and reaching that that now .

single issue voting blocked. I I would say the game there he did play out, but IT played out with them shutting down their attack of IT like they just like.

stop, right?

We can look like the opposite of this IT IT is the game theory playing up, but it's not the game theory that you many assumed of them like, oh, we're just going to try to go harder. They're not trying to outcompete trump. They're just trying to not look like the thing that make struck the good. Yes, so but they don't like IT and they don't want to like IT, but they can't say anything bad about IT because now they know what that means and what that's going to look like when you're holding IT up you which one of these pictures you when you're making that comparison?

No, that's that's a great point. But another uh, sort of a transition to um you know you mentioned this, there are very there are many very unique attributes of bitcoin. I think one of them that is worth talking about is, uh, you know it's this is a digital bear instrument that that just really hasn't existed ever in human history.

And so I think. As a species we are still wrapped with and learning to understand what we do with that type of asset, right? It's been fifteen and sixteen years. Um we have hardware devices, we have their party custodians. We sixteen years.

we yeah yes well the light paper sixteen january.

yes, but that I been that's relatively short p terms of .

the drive the technological .

adoption like that's a it's a blip in terms of monetary history and actually blip.

right?

So I guess where i'm going with this is what are your thoughts on bitcoins unique nature in this way of of how IT needs to be cured and stored and how you've thought about that over the years and maybe how you're thinking has evolved from when you first got into bitcoin to now and how you think about securing you're bickle in well into the future, handing IT off to your kids, their kids?

Like how do you think about that generally and and really comparing contrast IT to anything else anyone could ever hold. Its very different. And I think that there's um yeah there's a learning curve obviously associated with that. Um but I think it's it's on us as bitcoin ers and as a biton community to not only educate on best practices but also think of new ways and innovate to make IT easier to store this asset uh in a secured way.

Yeah so my feelings have been in the same direction, but they have gotten far. The conviction on IT has gotten much, much deeper. The more time gone on, I don't do anything this Normal ties say anymore, almost like anything on chain.

Like the only thing is not multi sic, which is actually funny. It's IT is multi sig is lining multinet is multi sig too. I I don't doing anything that it's not mult zag basically except for like my hot dest of hot wallet, just like a single key for you a little day to day stuff.

But for the things that I am doing spending out of that, I move from a multi g in chunks when I need IT and then back back and forth from that and having know a lot of people like it's so easy to do the mantra of not your keys, not your coins ends. And I think it's important to remember that those tag lines and the the kind of models of the space, our guidelines, like you have to consider the situation, you have to consider the person you're talking to. And I have on board a lot of people in the bakun over the years a lot.

And IT is not easy. IT is not easy. So many people are confused. So many people need help. And that journey from like knowing nothing and never having any bit going to genuinely holding your keys in a way that matters is not sit down within for ten minutes no, like that's a typically very long journey um to the point that like the point that like I worry about some people that i've gotten into bitcoin, like I don't like IT stresses me out, that I feel like I could i've put them at risk um and mean, of course it's not like my observation to fit, fix their holes, set up and do everything for them and you know keep their seed because defeats the whole purpose of the seed but IT does feel that way you know IT doesn't IT doesn't help that like I know the risk and I know what they could do and what they're likely to do, like my contractor, whatever. I've been slowly working my way towards getting him in a real set up.

He's more of a bion coin base and then accidently by some ship coin, that coin base told him to and then lose at all because they be listed, the shipcot and just large, the real true story. I was so matic on this, but got a city service anyway. So i've been trying to figure out how to assist and how to set up somebody in multiple g to negate lost keys because I think since we've started this this whole thing, he's lost his from twice.

Um just like in construction, stuff dropped IT somewhere crusting with you know, like that sort of thing. So having a key on the phone as the only thing that secures this, you mobile key is not going to work gotto, have a backup. And also, you know if there are no people who are extremely messy, totally unorganized, are going to write down a piece of paper, that piece paper is gone.

You know like they don't have A I know people who live out of their car basically like when they're working you know for weeks at a time and that person is not going to have a safe place to store seed and multiple. I is literally the best possible thing for splitting that up for for salt, getting around all of those limitations lost your phone. Okay, get the new phone set up up.

Just start a new key here. I have to put down the seed. Could IT do a one out of a three or five or something. And your phone is just the key. And if you lose IT, okay, swap IT to a new one.

And you have just enough help to get someone over that home to be able to recover the key, to be able to like, just how do I move this again? How do I do this? Like I don't worry us this click click ick and move on to this nuclei cint.

And and i've also, because of that, have gotten really. Dependent, that's not lord just got alibi. Really, really like the tab signer.

And I know it's not the most secure key device in the world. You can see what you're signing you. So I feel like your software is malicious. But I mean, if you know what you're going with your software, you check your signal and you install IT and you the idea that it's been edited later or something is just extremely unlikely.

Um but so you don't see the address with a tap signer like you do with a cold card or a uh treasure or bit locks or anything like that. The beauty of the ones with the screen and I think you should always have one with the screen and your set up and try to use IT whenever you can't for that security reason but taps hers just something you can stick in your pocket. I keep just having in your wallet.

And people are used to the process. They're used to the mind frame of keeping up with some cards. You know, everybody treats their wallet like people who have bad habits in every other regard.

Know where the wallet is, you know, like and that's hard to beat. If you can get a heart for your wallet in that wallet, you don't have to change their habits. You don't have to make them understand.

They know this is the thing that lets me pay. They know all of the setups they have, all of the right mental frame, all of the habits that are important to keep up with that. And if you do that with multiple g, keep this one in the one spot at home where you keep something a important.

Keep this one in your wallet, this one's on your phone. You can gate so many problems, you can negate so many possibilities of theft of, uh, losing a device of having your house burn down and not having your stop losing those keys like it's extremely useful. And the really crazy thing about this is that is something that you can do with anything else.

There is nothing there is no financial instrument or tool of any sort actually has that property except for bitcoin, which is mind boggling. And IT is one of the most underutilized tools in the tool box. And increasingly, I think, is one of the most important .

we do we totally .

agree guys did yeah not intentional advertisement for on meeting but no.

you said a few things, really important things in there. Um the first being there's not like a one size fitzooth bike in custody, right? Like there are different use cases, there's different risk tolerances. Um and you know you can there there's merit to saying i'm going to diversify my custody set up.

I have different wallet for different use cases, different set up for different use cases um in much of what we're trying to do IT on p to say to your another one of your points like multiple g is the best. So let's let's open up the accessibility of this thing called multi sig in a way that hasn't been done previously in the sunset. Yes, coin days you may use multi say, for their called storage, but they hold all the keys. So it's kind of irrelevant in in terms of the actual risk mitigation of of uh you reducing that counterpart. Uh and so our whole ideas, let's distribute the case to to multiple h institutions and and reduce that barrier to entry to someone to you know individual or institution getting the best form custody I E multi I sig h let's reduce that buried entry uh meaningfully and and came on and curious your thoughts on this because another thing guy I said in there was that yeah sometimes he worries about the people that he's on board and I know i've heard that from you in the past of because you've on board billions of dollars to multi sig in particular and other flavors of multi I sig. But curious your thoughts on on any of that in terms of, you know the evolution of custody, different models, different use cases, all that it's certainly .

still a difficult problem that were grappling with right guy because I i've been using him all the sig actually since I met you in two and nineteen and I got some great advice for matt. Marty resisting the T F T C and um started using cost at the time and then later were for unchained. Now with on them of course have been focused on IT for a long time and like you are fascinated by IT because it's never existed before.

IT is so powerful, you can have multiple. Is that secure this asset? You can sign a synchronously different parts of the planet with different people signing. It's it's so good. It's like a James by technology you developed in aloud that's in the real world and we get to use IT now. Um but then so one thing you touch on guy that i've been struggling with two little bit, you when someone either is starting to hold a material on T A bit coin, you want them in multi sing and you you started to call some of the reasons. But why I think your driving at is redundancy like coming eliminating that single point of failure is a core tenant of bit consecutive.

But then the right into the cross is what you're asking someone to do is then just use new technology and use multiple devices and farm factors, whatever those might be, whether it's a mobile key and construction with harbour walls or a tap signer, like there's multiple new piece of technology and you're asking people to um change their pattern of behavior or like change the way that they they Normally go after day a day life as you are references so that for sometimes I then that cause for concern short to creep in because now i'd go back and talk my clients like he did you select ate the devices? No, did you key check? Remember what the wall configuration violence, the essentially the backup for your multi sig, right? So how do you think about that in terms of like china help people in the best places, we didn't believe more strongly and multiply because when you have a digital finite bar asset, you have to have redundancy.

Because if you don't have abundancy, it's loss and it's gone. Rivers, a multislice, just a tool that provides a redundancy. But how do you can scare the idea that increase complexity, multi say, can bring with how human nature, almost like more about files, article thing, like the way that humans um you know kind of manage their lives.

Yeah well, the multiple c backup is the big thing for the wallet configuration because you know you use the exact same keys, you can technically, I mean, not going to you like if depending on like what wallet you're using, a lot of times that we will just generate the exact same one because it's got like a devote figuration. But you can technically create an infinite number of wallets and you can lose IT just by losing your all configuration.

Um so IT IT is essentially a at least in certain regards, IT has the risk of being another single point of failure because that can be lost. What the big thing is that is not is also not a major security risk. So it's easier to distribute.

And anybody that I on board or whatever I have a couple of different wallets are, excuse me, big thing of proton mail. I use proton mail all the time, and I have multiple different email accounts and stuff. And a one of things I often do, I explain to them what the potential risk is, is that you, like, I could technically pull this information and I could see what was in your wallet if I wanted to. I don't want to and don't care, but if you want me to have a back up, you can email IT to me, and you should email IT to yourself or to your wife or to anybody that you know just have this and labelled all big letters back up of whatever your APP is so that um if you ever search whatever you think first when you think about this wallet, what's and you want to search that, if you want to search that in your email, what would you find make sure that that comes up in that sear resolve um and then just have multiple companies of IT. It's easy to mitigate and it's not a huge it's not a massive security risk.

And if you know who you're giving IT to, it's easy to just trust a friend or a family member something with a backup of the wallet um uh in the context of keys is I specifically try to um be sure one thing that I actually do for a number people, especially family members and distant family members that I ve gotten into bitcoin is I just kind of make a habit like every month like shoot anatta ks. Just like you know your keys are and is safe I got just kind of do IT regularly and everyone's like is so good to hear from you yeah um so just keep the conversation fresh you know because I think it's important just to remind people and you do that once a month for six months, it's hard for people to forget it's it's always about just a little bit of repetition like that's not hard to do, that is not hard to keep up with. Set yourself a freak reminder on the calendar text to these ten people or whatever to make sure that they know whether keys are. They will never forget where they are. If you do that for half a year, you like, though they will be in their mind.

have trouble sitting birthday .

cards on the right day in the right yeah I know I was in a birthday card I in the text to felt very you um uh but uh uh then in addition to is always like to do a set up the kind of forces mean to have keys in all places like so h just as an example is if i'm using um so always try to use a wallet with hard work well with the screen at some point in my set up so called card dead box treasures and only my treasures as much as do as is typically typically call car these days um but one that I can verify and I can see you know what I can look at that address on the screen but then uh I almost univerSally have a tap signer in my set up now because downer goes in my wallet and that and travels with me.

My cold card isn't going to be in my wallet is never going to be in the same place I taps. I always going to be my wallet and then I typically like to have a mobile key and I can actually keep, uh, back up of that in my secure non online password manager, something so I can treat that key a little bit, loser, and more easily recover that and I can put that in any crypt blob on a storage service or something um just as a uh back up drive for for those things. And I can recover that if I lose my computer or my phone or something like that.

And again, it's one of three. So like if I think that's been compromise ed, easy to swap out. And I also don't have to keep up with uh, paper back up for that one if I don't want to.

Ah one thing I really wish was more standard though because I would love this option on is for a mini script to be like far more ubiquitous ous or easy to work with, I guess. And I think there's a it's not that keep thinking only thing is precision. There's a wallet that anker wallet anchor, I think is one of the few that has started to implement this.

But I love the idea of cascine keys. I would love to have a six months time lock where if I don't have any of the keys, my cold card can just sign, but I have to wait six months for the transaction to go through so that I can always just stood up the wallet look. And if somehow one of those keys got compromised and somebody sent a transaction in, in that time, I can still use two keys and be like to the do something hat to my phone or whatever, and I can react to IT.

But in the case where I do lose my tap signer and my phone and computer, I don't know. I lose a whole bunch of things that wants the way the set up is for like I mean, it's like my data day while IT that I do like A A set up like this um so I feel pretty secure in IT. But if I did lose IT, I would love to have that.

I only need the cold card IT just contain me six months to get my phones as a backup. That would be now be a wonderful set up. Another thing that specifically bit going can do that you cannot do with any other asset in the world. And I I would love to be able to take more advantage of that.

The only problem of doing that for other people um I mean, I guess unless you just keep IT as dirt simple as possible, like one key will unlock this in six months, you know um is IT becomes a little bit difficult to intuitively understand you know the risk and what to look for. And if they saw a transaction, god, what's happening you like if one of their keys got stolen, great. Did they have six months to sorted out? So they would probably just call me but um I might not be there, you know, I might not be accessible, might not be around, who knows so every .

not everybody has a guy.

Yeah not everybody has a guy.

But you know, part of the part of the reason we want to have this conversation is is you put out a tweet a few days ago. You're in lugano for the plan b comprehend, and you said, we face the truth. Many big coiners ever look being a target as real.

A man broken to our hotel room, likely seeking valuable asset. Speak winners often Carry. This is more than a story of visual. This is a call for every big corner to recognized mistakes. So you know in as few or as many details as you are willing to share like we'd love to hear what happened in lugano and and what were some learnings and take away and and things of the audience should should recognize about what .

occurred yeah well if you want the really long version I did a guys take on IT so will .

link to that in the show that .

ah would be great. Thank you. Um and uh I tried to do IT while it's fresh like right when I got home um to just try to get out as many details as possible like I was thinking about IT like a police report something right because I didn't I didn't file and yet I probably should but we couldn't figure, we couldn't find that we are so brushed to get to the train station like we were like back to back to back that that morning getting out there.

And honestly, I don't feel like is going to do in a good, but I don't know if it's important have that record. I can't can't convince myself why it's like super important to have a police record right now. I feel like IT would be stupid to run into the situation where I needed IT and not have IT blood.

Anyway, that's beside the point. So IT was the night, the first day of the conference. So we've been there for two nights and did the first day conference and we were supposed to have a speakers dinner that night.

So my brother and I we're supposed to be there and I was supposed be like from and like nine, ten, thirty or something like that at night. Um and we went with mechanic and and is so many we're hanging out with friends and got there and then we were like, and they're still doing the drones show like you know we're going to skip this. We're going to do the drone show and then call IT for night.

I'm a dad. I'm lazy. I just kick IT easy and like go back and like watch simple shit for a little while and get to sleep right. And especially I was in seeing the next day, so I was going to on my feet all day, uh, and go over watch the drone shows. Great we come back um and as we come up, IT takes about two minutes to get from the front door up to our room or at the very very into the home the second floor.

And as we come up, we're just walking, solving all the world's problems as we're stroling down the hall and um we get about maybe ten, fifteen feet away from the door and at the end of the holiday, stick to redos or right closers door right in front of you, door just to the right and then a door right beside that. And so there was reasonable reasonable x excuse to say that maybe I misremembered maybe I wasn't sure which door he came out of um but i've gone over my head. There's in a way he came out of our door and so we're like ten fifteen feet away and he just comes barrel and out.

And the thing that stood out, my mind that like when the manager was like, are you sure like we don't have any record of this? Like somebody you win in this door because there's no log. There's a log on the door like when you scan a card and IT stays on the door like it's stored inside the little mechanism. There is no law at all but enter the room between the last time that we did at seven we left and at nine o seven when we got back. So whatever he did, he should just be a completely mechanistic way of opening the door.

But i've specifically remembers the way the door closed, like the fact that IT closed by, I mean, I remember seeing him walking out of the door, but regardless, I knew because I was looking through at the wall in the room and the door closed this direction, and every other door was the opposite, like in in the, in the area. And but IT was totally took me off guard because like IT took me like half a second build. So what is he doing in our room and then he basically just comes barreling like like power walking past me and I kind like half staff and as like do what he doing and he's in plain cloth.

He's in all black at a with a jacket um I didn't remember this, but when we saw on the footage, both when he was coming in and going out, he had had a small shoulder bag um and so he had that with him I don't know what I assume maybe it's the device to get into the door um and not one hundred percent short. I still could not find anything that was missing but I game as body doing is good, is good. And I was like, what would you do in my room that if what do you talking about this, you gotta speaks some english here, right?

Like, what are you doing in my room and he's like a water water is fun, is fun, is fun. It's like just pushed and pass me and we turn around and start walking. My brother didn't see him exit the room, but he's like, why is this guy so weird? Like i'm saying, you know, why did you in our room and so we welcome behind him down the hall about halfway and he turns around. He just like dismissive, trying to pretend he doesn't speak english or maybe he didn't speak english, I don't know, but I assume it's just a defensive mechanism and he sweating bullets he's so awkward is weird. He's little bit shorter than me and he's just I just try and so hard to get out there and everything about IT was so weird and uncomfortable like IT was so clear that he was not supposed to be there or that he was scared to death, that he was there for some reason, and he just kept saying, the water, the water, the water.

And then our immediate so stupid, I guess I still just can't believe that I didn't just follow him down, but I was still registering that someone had broken into our room you know um and like when you I really wish I had prepared know there there was this era and I talked to shock him more about this is this kind of era of bitcoin at the very beginning where everybody was like crazy, paranoid and everybody was going overboard and then we've just kind of gotten complacent because like not much has happened you know um during the the years and like two hype cycle since the two thousand and thirteen. But like the two thousand and thirteen fourteen era with conferences, like people like everybody's like wearing mask, everybody, nobody's bringing and nobodies connecting the wifi. They like you set up wifi, you just chance you just trying to get in everybody's devices.

I was like everybody who was crazy paranoid, like sato shi level paranoid back then. And all that went away. Everybody just got complacent and should a funny thing and I think it's I really important to remember what level of attack and what level of this is yeah like this is literal cash.

And one of the one of the things has gotten me super rethinking my security and everything like I just recently got my conceal career and i've been done in like A A uh a python class every month and stuff because I I feel like i've really let that not not yet the attention that IT deserves um for just like personal protection in self at home ah and i've done like some low hanging for you know security systems sort of stuff. We have we get dogs, love dogs. You probably already heard and but there was a lot talk about this a lot.

And he was actually very conveniently there. And we had a long conversation a couple times about this but talks about there is a mafia with a literally again ata florida that was trading around traveling around the country um finding people who had large amounts of judging cyp to on then exchange. One one old elderly couple got hit twice, twice by the same group and I was regularly reading the reports of this and they straight up there's one of them kidnapping a guy and, uh beating him and torturing him and sending messages to his family members to, you know, text messages and phone photos.

The cent, you know, a bit corner script to the address. There's one of the more common one because IT basically time sensitive. If you don't, you don't want exposure and you want a few people to know about IT as possible but the most common is home invasion, beat up family members, threaten to kill kids, threaten right wives until you give us your case um and that happens in the town.

I read the town that I live in twice in these articles and I was like. Now you know there's there's a lot of things that you can do to protect yourself. Not using K Y C as a huge benefit, but also not having stuff sitting and baLances is really important because when that information leaks, you know it's hard for them to know like they're always going to go for low hanging fruit.

You know like someone who does that is a cover like like they're not they are looking for easy money. That's the whole point of IT. If if they wanted hard money, they just work. You know, going back to the situation because like this is this is slowly been my framing in this event was kind of like the wake up call.

But I I still had not gotten into that mentality of like thinking about my hotel room strickly adversarial scenario and that I should be basically on the war path for setting up and how I I always have backup s you know, like, I keep another phone just in case. But I had not been thinking about this, like, i'm kind of entering i'm entering a bit of battlefield, you know, like, and I need to be thinking about this as as my remote castle, so to speak. Um and uh so we followed him about half way down the hall and then for some reason my thought was checked to make sure you didn't take anything.

And we turn back around and went back to the room, and we looked over everything. Is my laptop still there? Is this is IT look like anything has been touched.

Is the cash to way like you? Like I just when and look through everything. And we let him leave, and he left the building during that, you know, minute span.

And when we, when you sit on the security footage, he came in at eight fifty four, and he left at nineteen. So the entirety of the time that he was, there was sixteen minutes. We came in at nine of seven.

So basically the largest span of time possible if he went by line up to my room because he saw guys won on the list or got information from an employee or something like that. So if I was specifically targeted, which doesn't still doesn't make a lot of sense to me, I have a hard time and I don't want to think that i'm just excusing IT and being like o, he wouldn't target me. I'm safe.

He was in my freaking room, you know but that hotel room had a lot more important people than the guy who does audio books, you know. And like marty moni was there. I mean, I like basically three of the top seven, four of the top seven of who might setoc b were in the hotel, you know. Um so I suspect IT was just a opportunistic attack.

like just random. He he knew that he was .

just to be there for the conference .

because .

this was the big or conference, right and specifically, they're all at the speakers dinner and this is the hotel where they say so I I highly that that seems like the most logical explanation um and if I was specifically targeted, I also just don't know. That's a little hard to deal with too. I I don't know what that means you know going forward or what they think they have on neve or how many bitcoin guy has or whatever the internet.

But anyway, so. After a couple minutes, realizing that nothing was gone, nothing appeared, moved, like maybe he was only in the room for a couple of minutes. I don't know.

We realized that or they just like kind of pop in our heads. And we're like way to second, he said the water and we had actually had the the spit on the bottom was super hard to cut off. And while I was wet, IT was actually hard to get completely off.

And I was started leaking. And we know the mates to come in and clean the place or whatever. And twice when he come back and the speak IT was leaking um and so we like hold like maybe the maid solve this. And this was like a maintenance guy just checking before we left at night or something. And so we kind of had this like rill dumb, not very good excuse for IT and shrug IT off for much for a lot too long.

We struck get off too long and we SAT and just kind of pretend nothing happened and just we're going about our Normal night and then um my brother took a shower and I was sitting there and apparently both of us were separately thinking about and being like and I should not make sense that none of that makes sense. IT was nineteen, is in plain clothes. This hotel would fire somebody for going into plain clothes in somebody's room, you know, like, this is a nice hotel.

This is a nice this hotel i've ever been in. Um and then he got out, his, I do do I think we should, we should go tels of money? I like, yeah, we totally should go tels money.

I know what we are doing, like why this took us this long to figure this out um and so we go downstairs report, talk to the manager and we ended up meeting them again the next morning um they looked at maintaineth records. Nobody was on. Nobody left.

Six o'clock definitely not a main and guy and then that's when I check the log for the door and there is no indication than anybody open the door um and he was likely sure he wasn't right you know the wrong door. You must remember what I was like now no, that's not. That's not what he is like.

I get that you're confident about your doors, but that's that's just now what happened? And I ended talking to somebody randomly ly in the bathroom. There are two guys talking about death con and like all these like crazy security things and I can't remember exactly what was said. No here's somebody talking about some of the best um but I do know enough to know whether to be able to spot whether not somebody else is fully crap.

Most the time i've read a few things and um uh something about something that one of the guys said I was like, um okay yes so he knows what he's talking about and I actually stopped them coming out of the bathroom and I was like, let me give you a scenario and gave him the run down and he was like, well, that all depends on your actor like like who is who is the threat? Is this estate? Is this no C I A is just a opportunist thief.

Um but I would consider I would be rolling every key that I have, every everything I would just be assuming, no matter what the your scrip and you just need to change everything and and I was like, well, he was in a hurry and there was no indication that he touched my laptop and then he was like, why this was real literally just come up with the scenario so the conversation got more interesting, right? And a and and you know that's that's what i've been doing but oh my god, that's a job. And they had to do this recently with the last pass hack, which I know I got really secure password.

But if that's out there, I have to assume that somebody some point something going to break IT that to two months to about all this stupid grab. Like I know, I guess it's like fifty. They are important like that they're really critical.

But I don't I don't like IT leaving anything exposed because is a lot around about ways that somebody can get back to something. But yeah, we ganim video coming up, a fifty form on video leaving. I could not have really the only thing stock can do.

A couple of people never like, right? That's on accept to one night state that hotel again. And i'm like, you know there's it's a hotel it's a hotel like IT was really nice. And as far as like basic security goes, there's not a lot you can do. Hotel room doors are just not cypher graphic lock boxes, you know like the guy as the guy from death comm was like, man, I actually like hotel room to ours are just crap and is a matter what what they have like you can just gan into him, like you just can um if you know what you're doing, even said that he usually takes a device to death con or whatever just to show IT off. They can just get into doors.

And then we also looked when we tested a bunch of things, one of the things that we did and which I will do, somebody actually an interesting point is maybe he was picking something up, maybe he had a wifi device singer and he was getting IT because that was an opportunity to see you know who connected to IT um because you know we had a small bag. We looked for something that was planted and we looked like, okay, like, and we tour that whole place apart, looked under matt rosses, looked in the weird little cubes behind rollers and the little desk thing, look behind the wall piece that the TV was hanging on. Because my thinking is, you know, low hanging fruit, easy to in, like very easy to implement because like I know how to do IT um and high likelihood of just a lot of optionality is drop a man in the middle wifi.

I get a signal there and see if you can get anybody's info and hope you're not on a VPN because that all foil most of those plans like like a VPN basically a set protection or a defile protection against the majority of men in the midst tacks if you trust your repeating but could not find anything um again could not there was no visual indication that he had touched my laptop and IT was over in the corner on the floor next to the bed so that makes more sense that he was probably going through all of my brother stuff first if he was making his way around the room. Um and in the context of how long he had been in the room, maybe he was just on the second polar and he went to the end the hall because that was the one that nobody was going to have traffic you know like Louis go to the into the hall and start, you know maybe we were the second door because we were the second tour on the on the hall maybe he had just gotten in our room. Clearly caught him in the middle you know the other thing that stood out to me is that he didn't have to look out.

He wasn't working that as far as sophistication goes, sure, I could have been mosad or C I A or whatever. But then they just hired a dummy on, fired, you know, to to break into the room. They certainly weren't helping him because they were known way before we would have just pass him on stairs.

You know, like I said, it's like a two minute trip to get up to the end of that hall. He left the room because he heard us like either that or he was doing something that took two minutes to clean up and you know be done with which that seems less likely you would not want to get into something that involved. I feel like this sort of an attack IT just makes lot more sense that he was just working alone.

He came up by himself um on the security tapes, uh uh going back to the hotel there, I don't I don't really fault the hotel that much. The one thing that I really wish they had done is think about their security camera positioning. Everything was super far away and they did not have a single like on the door. Just point one at the door.

Potman run at the door so you can see the hall. So can the door specifically.

there was no thing inside, like for the sake of privacy. They don't have anything on the whole ways, but they have the entries and exits and lobby and reception and that sort of thing. And so uh and they're pointing at both the the sidewalks and stuff outside, really big high cameras pointing down so you can see him.

And i've recognized him because the manager was like, we didn't see anybody who fit the description whatever. Like can I look at IT please? Can I look at IT and and he was like he fall with me a little bit but he was like, yeah, you didn't see IT and we found him really quickly um like I was immediate like that is the guy and he specifically was running away when he left.

Like he was he was like like he's doing this like little hot thing so he was nice. He was running away. He got called and but we looked through everything and then I started doing tests on my computer, uh like looking at cornal logs, like just like system logs. And um so my computer was not off, I was not powered off, but IT was closed and sleep. So I was like the basic lock, like you had to have a password to get back into IT.

Um but my question is, you know, do logs, do logs take when it's a sleep? How does that work? I want IT no um so I started doing test like can I plug something into this computer without triggering system logs? And while I was a sleep, while I was sleeping, closed IT produced nothing like no logs or whatsoever.

I did IT for like ten minutes on the train. Um and for the entire ten minutes span is zero, zero entries. I plugged in a dirty again, put sleep plugged in a um uh U S B A extinction like adapter thing with a bunch reports on IT hub and a like eighteen thousand system.

I was like just a pat on of system locks while I was a sleep and I was like, okay, what's the domestic? I have and I have a very, very crappy um uh USB cable like the one that doesn't have like a full computer and i'm sure just got a little chips and stuff in the head or whatever, but is a very, very basic charge cable like that in like like that there's like a thousand logs like port I O boot logue kernel logue like you name IT even like a notifications boot log. Like you plug anything even slightly into this computer while asleep and IT is doing a million things so checked the log for the sixteen minutes between him on the camera entering and leaving.

Nothing, nothing at all. And I also specifically when we're I spent a long time trying to figure out how to delete blogs. And you cannot do that without root password, at least in a very naive since on the computer.

So IT seems unlikely unless I got pegasus. And you know, like the frequent C I A is after my bitcoin or my computer, everybody, you're probably all infected. Your else screwed now. But unless I got hit with that, there is just no indication that he got to my computer.

I am still treating IT as if he did um because I don't know deeply enough about the topic to really say confidently but there's at least no evidence that I can find in the basic knowledge that I have of that level of communication but then I think you know if IT was pegi or something, why do you have to send a guy in my room? You know, what is my phone number and my apple ID? If you ve got a back door to the apple servers, you ve got all my crap.

You you tell me my hotel room when you go to switch z wind or pay somebody to do IT, you know so but yeah, IT was basically two days of just trying to like explain the situation. I wish so bad, and I will never I will have this forever every time I am in a hotel room, especially at a bit coin conference, I may very well have a travel computer now with me. I probably won't bring this thing.

And i'm still been considering just buying a new one and trading this in and just wiping IT just for the hell bit. I literally took I bought up a kit kit in the first thing I did when I got home as I took IT apart um open IT out make sure there isn't anything planted in like his simple little microphone could do a key laughter. Just listen to the keys uh nothing no indication there either um and he could have opened IT and only actually took me about like a minute and a half um after I knew exactly what I was doing because you have to really ideal like a unna thing to get the the base off.

But if you had practice, if I had practiced IT, I easily have got ten in a minute in half toast um but I going to have a camera in my hotel, one that is inconspicuous and remotely accessible, saving information somewhere. In fact, I may I may develop my own APP that runs on the pair stack or whatever. So just recorded back home or something by default and just like cycled over for like the last five minutes for the footage until there's motion or something.

And there's a couple of simple little open source things for emotion detection from a camera that you can do with smart phone these days. I think even average snow den, they built a APP called light or L. S.

maybe. And anyone, I think maybe some APP, but is like called like haven or something. I could be wrong and has been a long time so I thought about IT until very recently um but it's basically snowden talked about you know this devices crazy spying they use IT to.

They can record you. They can turn on the camera. They have this as a proximately since or I mean this things got like twenty sensors on IT.

It's battery power. You can turn that off and it's still technically not off. It's still doing stuff um and he's like, you know this is a powerful weapon that the government has and the the intelligence agencies has against us.

We can use IT too. Why wouldn't we use IT? You know, like we can use this as a security device. We can use this as a watch your room and here's the best security camera you're ever gonna have to everything to me to buy, you know. So that's kind of the idea of that act, but i'll probably use something like that.

But for the next time I travel and and I have something, i'm going to be absolutely thinking about a lot more seriously about my devices and keys. And then there is every day that I felt like Better having everything set up a multiple g right? Because a guy at least knew that even with total access to my computer, they'd have to be playing the long game.

Nothing is immediately vulnerable, you know. but. I just wish, I just wish I could know what the hell he did in my room.

Yeah, that's a tough. It's tough to tough to stomach that you don't have like foreclosure on IT in some sense was .

I was legit sick on my stomach for little while. I'm sure appreciate .

you walking through all of that because I think it's it's very helpful context for folks who you know you mentioned, you think there is an element of complacency that sort of um has occurred over the past few years.

I would argue like the the career or more concerning aspect to me is less the complacency is more the the attackers are only going to become more sophisticated, advanced over time because, yes, five, ten years ago, bitcoin was this play thing. Well, now it's now it's more broadly recognized as an asset where people store material wealth. And we think you know knowledge about bitcoin is uh, not widely dispersed, right? Like so if that is to be true, most people understand that going as an investment.

I said, you know the same number, if not less, understand that people store material wealth in this thing. And oh yes, it's a bear instrument that they might have on their person. So I think, you know, I think that would be we would be remiss not to assume that these attacks are only going to a become more sophy, ted and more prevalent as people more deeply understand what the coin is and how is stored um and so I think it's just important to highlight stories like this because it's not to be clear, it's it's certainly not a fear monger in any sense.

It's to um give people context and you have them thinking critically about how they store their bitcoin, particularly when they're traveling or on the road, particularly edicated converses. But also just recognizing that there's there's different models and there's different use cases and bread vectors to consider. Um and so yeah, we just just really appreciate you walking through all of that um because I can get something that people do you need to think more currently about.

I feel like IT doesn't do any good yeah I guess i'm i'm an extrovert too, so i'm more likely to just blab about IT anyway. But IT also seems like it's of no value for that to happen and then not tell people about IT because like what do you what you learned from me again in the context of, you know oh, the fear mongering is like not just like that should one hundred percent like it's not a fear mother m just telling you what happened like you can be afraid or not based on how likely you feel like you're going to be a tag i'm a very prominent person in the space, like outward person in this space.

People could listen to my show and probably be like, alright, well, as house, as A H doesn't have a garage and is got this and this and this is how many hard wear well, as he has as actually make somebody was post in that on A H is U T X O U T X O posted on noster? Is that the the burglar listening listening to my songs episode as he lists all of his hardware wallets? And is the picture mark cuban? Like, oh, okay, let me right that down but I was like, yeah, yeah, good luck if he wants to wants to break in and find all my hard wear.

Well as I have there's there's a security through um obscurity, but then there's also security through sheer number. Know like that's less the crypto phy trick, right? Is that if your numbers too big to guess, well, if they come in and get all of my hardware, while IT will take them six months to figure out what combination of what hardware wallets actually make something that might have some bitcoin on IT because I have way too many hardware wallets like I have a lot of hardware wallet.

I have draws with hardware wallets, and people have sent me hardware wallets, and I have used just a test and play around with and stuff. I do not envy the person who has to just look, and I do not envy myself having to go back through and clear things out and just make sure that I can take note of the setups that I have. But jesus cry someone is like getting all of my hardware well as and then being like art. Let's get into all these things and gets a big of this that guys got a fun job. Yeah.

that would be an unenviable task. We're little over now. Here, I want to be respect of your time. Time guy, this was super helpful. Can do you have any other thoughts you wanted to get out any other questions for? Guy, before we read?

Now just a general things guy. Appreciate you sharing and that sorry, is uncomfortable. That is because that is um a good call to us all to real value. How are her securing on big cline? And I agree that multiple c should be the premises as multiple different reforms that can take. But when you think about defending your own bitcoin, your own castle, also to speak in the place you are most the time are with us at home or traveling, think about how you can use multi safe to keep yourself in your family. You're well safe and the scenario appreciate you.

I like that. Yeah one hundred percent is especially when you're traveling, it's too easy to set IT up these days. See their services that make an easy own rap, you obviously, but like non shock is super easy too if you just want to do IT yourself like you have so many options now.

And two years ago, that was not the case. No, none is a great. Two years ago is an awful, confusing, risky. Two years ago, yeah, today, not at all, not at all. Have multi six set up, just in case your bag get stolen at the airport like heavy multi so that you can go home, break out your hardware wallet or know whatever is that you're using and recover your phones.

Um that is that is the easiest, as as I specifically said a little bit ago, is the most comforting thing to this entire process was just knowing that my bitcoin was not behind a single key that was potentially at risk because of my computer. That was the only thing I was never really concerned about, like IT even took me a day or two to open up my multi g while I just a look, you know because I just wasn't concerned. I just knew that there was no feasible way that that was being that was at risk because of my set up, you know um the only tap signer that was even involved with IT was all my person the whole time I came with me did not stay in the hotel.

So um yeah that's that's just something to think about. And if there is any simple mitigation, I feel like that's that's definitely it's one that's easy to do. And IT is a massive massively valuable tool, in my opinion.

absolutely. Well said. Well, thanks again. Guy has been great and good to .

meet you.

brian. Yeah great to meet you as well. Good to fan for a long time and and a you you provide an immense amount of important big coin education, which is something that at on ramper books on as well since day one, you know you can't you can't run a .

bitcoin company without I say you have got they are really good like biton interesting that that i've been through.

Don't you know where where is down? Yeah undamned tal series yeah which goes through some basic core concepts and in a pretty concise manner.

I should need to .

that yeah please do. And we will links to all of your stuff as well. The chants.

But thanks again and camp. Thanks for seven in for Michael today. Much appreciated.

Don't guy. So this a bit of .

far is so far mean we catch up the next conference you going to i'm going to the .

one here in dallas coming up in a couple weeks that lee bracer, the texas .

watching you will help me up, will coordinate when it's been to you guys.

Yes.

I said .

IT later. All right, I hope you enjoyed that show. I think there's a lot of valuable information in there. And really, I cannot stress enough separating separating your keys and getting a camera, having some sort of defensive recording of every situation, even if you are just recording IT has such a tendency like especially we d like the police. Just inform them that that's what's happening.

It's not just a way to be like, oh, i'm filming you don't do anything IT literally puts everyone in a position of like someone else is going to look at this. I need to make sure I am behaving IT is literally for both of your safety. And that is something that I think we we're always talking about a lot of different things in threat vectors and how to protect bitcoin in stuff.

But remember, protecting bitcoin is really about protecting yourself, about protecting your home, your family, yourself, your money. IT is all encompassing. You know, if you are at risk, you're big corner at risk as well. So think about that.

Don't as I said before, there was a there was a quote that I don't remember where I was from, but it's stuck with me because I thought that was a really interesting way to put in. An interesting perspective to think about was it's not as hard as a lot of people think to get a lot of wealth or to make a lot of money at some point in their life. Usually what happens is that they then make decisions or don't know how to protect IT or keep IT.

The larger problem is to sustain wealth, and that is where most people go wrong. And when we are moving into a bitcoin world and we're moving into a sound money world where you can't just in det yourself into ownership of everything and capital is real and he has a real Prices, it's going to make a whole lot more sense to make sure that you have insurance, insurance on your home safety insurance. And I don't mean this like you you purchase an insurance policy.

I mean a security camera, you know how to use a gun. You you know how to protect yourself and your family. You are trained with IT, you have a dog, you have multi sig with your keys that you do all of the easy and first steps needed in order to protect yourself and your situation.

So I hope this is a help, and this will be something that we will increasingly talk about on the show because this has been a focus of mine for probably about the last six months to a year more and more. So i'll be sharing more like what i'm doing. And I hope this is valuable to you guys, and I hope is a little bit of a wake up call that we can learn from my mistake and also from something that I I really got really lucky.

I feel like I really, really so far not on wood. So we'll see. Um i'll keep up today. I don't forget to subscribe, don't forget to share the show out. Anything you want to do the support, please check out our filet links like I said, share the show stream sats boost on fountains shadow to all the guys who do. Thank you so much.

IT really doesn't an a lot and like now that like so much of the stuff is like straight up into my albee IT is pink so cool to see? Just be able to open up my main lighting wallet and i'm just like looking through my apps in the comments and I got a couple about the one small catch for mankind video of uh the launch of the heavy booster and starship with SpaceX is just really cool, is really cool. Um so check out those.

And in fact, I should probably do a video that so keep keep an eye out for youtube. I'll do a video on ali hub, how IT works and how just freaking awesome IT is to have a non custodial wallet with a lightning address through ali hub. You can plug into all your services in the oster and you can get sap straw to IT.

It's awesome. So stay tuned, stay subscribed. And i'll catch you on the next episode of a big one arbol. Till then, everybody take a easy guys.