161. Where Luxury Meets Sound: A Century of Timeless Innovation at B&O
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Hello 大家好， 我是 巴西 李倩 玲。 欢迎 收听 今天 的 备忘录。 奢华 生活方式 视听 品牌 B N O 全球 的 董事会 11月 初 在 上海 举行 备忘录， 很 荣幸 能够 有 机会 采访 了 B N O 的 全球 C E O krim。 我和他 聊 了 聊 B N O 能够 成为 百年 品牌 的 关键因素、 策略 以及 他们的 坚持。 B N O 的 聚焦， 产品质量 的 不 妥协， 跟 我们 之前 几集 的 百年 品牌 的 成功 因素 很 类似。 这 又是 一集 很 值得 想 把 品牌 做好 的 朋友们 的 参考 内容， 跟 往常 的 全英文 内容 的 备忘录 一样， 我们在 备忘录 公众 号 备忘录 加 里面 会 提供 中英文 文字稿 给 有 需要 的 朋友 购买。

另外 B N O 为 我们的 听 友 准备 了 B N O 声音 艺术展 特别 定制 款 的 杯垫， 每一款 杯垫 的图案 对应 了 这一次 展览 上面 的 A 9音响 面罩 的 一款 设计， 一共 12款。 我们会 在 12月6号 挑选 12位听 友 的 留言 随机 送出。 如果你 好奇 是 哪 一些 的 设计 图案， 你可以 在 B N O 的 官方 微信、 微博、 小红 书 上面 找到 答案。 谢谢 你的 收听。

Um hi welcome to today's episode. It's it's an all english episode and and my lesson is would know when it's english. That means someone who's very important global position, global o come on to my show so it's our privilege to have B N O global.

See you Christ tear eyes last night onto for our show. Thank you so much for being on my show. High question.

There is a really y so .

we actually did decide recording in shanghai, and I understand that after the pendel c this is I don't know how many trips are you've already .

done to shanghai. I come here regularly. We have a great team here, and a lot of things happening here in shanghai, and china is really in the forefront of many of the things. Learn and .

learn from .

team. Well, there's a lot of reasons to come.

of course, but there's also another reason that, that you're coming here. This is I think next year is the one hundred years of .

o we are celebrating hundred years next year. So it's the company has been around for .

so how technology evolved.

right? We have a story to because not that many people know that we have been round for one hundred years, and that is just an amazing feat in itself. And and the if you're looking in the consumer electronics space, we are the oldest company around. And I think also we have an exciting future ahead of us for another hundred years as well with a new strategy. So we're really looking forward the next year, but also beyond.

Yeah, well, exactly like exactly. My family, those of my brother's family were a big fan or B, N, O. So I didn't realize this brand has been around four hundred years or soon to be, right? This is a nine years. What are the key to the success that I say that for a brand idea, like you said, your technology evolve quickly, and there are so many options these days. I know also Young people assume sume music consumer electronic products is very different to say, people hundred years ago how to P N O survive a hundred first.

I think the people, the people from the people, have amazing people across the world, and of course, market in the factory and in the officers as well. And at one point in time, during the second word war, the whole factory was bombed and and disappeared and the whole village was out next day and rebuilding the right and taking care of IT and yeah wanting you to succeed.

I think that's one part of its all the people and the passion and the commitment that we see. But I think also the way that the company founders set the company up and and never kind of compromising, we can only do the best and not to give up. And we think differently.

Those were two esau's from our founders already back in one thousand nine and twenty five, and we have lived by them. And now we are taking them back even stronger than we have had in the past. And then of course, if you have that those values you try to always make the best and solve the problem for the consumers.

And sign and acoustics has always been our thing in Christmas ship as well to make amazing things and make magical moments for people. And that has been the success. And I we're going to double down on that as well going forward.

How come the second war war didn't? Should I use what killed the company?

Because that killed many, many companies to the people again and setting that up. And of course, also the demand for the product. I think we have always done desirable products. People want the product. People aspire to our products.

And when they see them, because they are beautiful and they are different from a design point of view, we we say now in popular terms, we try to get away from White plastic and black plastic. And as far away as we possibly can. And we make IT beautifully in wood, in aluminum and in textile le of fabrics.

And when you see you almost instantly recognize this should be in no product, we try to solve a problem for the customers as well. And if you go back and look at some of the economic products, one of them means bill thousand nine thousand, which is the six C, D player all mounted or tables stand or on the floor stand, standing product as well. And at that time, you had basically square black C, D players where you could load in maybe either one c, six cds.

And IT wasn't very nice, and IT IT wasn't like art crazed out that. So the designers said the baby Lewis at the time, he figured out the way of beautifully displaying your C, D. Records and the artwork on the C.

D. Records and making sure they stopped actually in a given position on this one. And then of course, that his ARM was moving in the magical movement and IT becomes an art topic is not.

It's more than playing music. Uh, so so we are proud to be in the music and sound industry and that will never go await. IT has been around forever, and i'm sure going to continue to be around forever.

But then to make IT really beautiful that you have a piece that you are proud about and that you want to show case in your room um and that is different. Think that's what we have always that we go our own way. And you see that in the iconic products from the past and you will see that in future products.

Yeah my husband used to have a bill sound three thousand two hundred, I think, and my brother has two, eight and nine. And and I also went until your website to look at all the products since the very beginning, all iconic products. You said every piece of those product looks like an either a art work or a very nice food you be put in there.

You wouldn't think that that's a speaker. No, it's part of your decor war. no. IT goes very well with whatever you .

have in a room. Hundred person, we make art. We make a beautiful sound. IT looks beautiful. IT sounds beautiful, and IT evokes these emotions and feelings when you see them, and you are proud owner of a peace that is going to last for a long log period time.

And that we have now also made the products in a modular way on the platform way so they would be upgradient services reparable as well. So you buy IT and you look after for the next generation. It's never going to go out of vogue.

yeah. But I look at products, I think, to myself. Do I call them speakers or do I do we call them high and furniture, or do we call them award? No, that's because .

if you look at the home, everybody wants a home to look beautiful. And and if you hide the sound away, you put other art orbits in your room, in your living room. Why hide IT away when you have something that is already beautifully from the beginning and that you can be proud and cherished and as as a function as well? So you can look at IT yeah feel good about IT. It's time to bring beautiful sound out into the homes so that you can see IT IT doesn't have to be visible anymore.

Yeah, I learn from your team that David is a designer, he said. And Steve jobs are actually very good friends for each other.

We know where I think he's writing about IT in his book, actually, that the only non apple product that he had in the office was in eight nine, so that I can understand you if I got up. And if we also celebrate here now without of a nine in shanghai yesterday. So I can totally see that.

And we know also that the among apple of senior executives, we have many be no fans as well because they are also trying to do things differently. And then I think they also took that slogan for a while, be different. We think differently. So yeah, with a lot of similarities, I think, between what they did and they are doing and .

will come back to A A eight latics. I think you're doing something really interesting about the product. Uh, I want to come back to this one hundred years celebration of your company because at at the moment, china is going through our first cycle, which is a very important but also very chAllenging period of time to a lot of the brands people are thinking to themselves.

What do I need to do to make sure that I survived cycle and become a long sustainable brand in in this marketing in the world, right? So we look to brand success, successful brand I B N O, to learn from your experience. So in those one hundred years so far, what some of the milestones or highlights of this one hundred years history that tell people those are the things reason why B A, one hundred year or brand, and we like to say we have another one, at least another one years to go, or many of them to come.

I think there are many ways, but but I think one of the most important things is, again, in the people, in the company, in the people in our birth places as well, in that mark in general as well, who have this passion and commitment to the Brown, that's really, really important. But then to keep on innovating, we don't stand still alone.

We think differently again, and we try to find new ways of doing IT and then doing something that is Better and that is solving a problem. And that has kept also around for for one hundred years. And and that's also the strategy now going forward when we have sharpened our strategy and focus on actually timeless technology as the three key words in, in our business study going forward.

And when we look at the penetration of that market, we have a very low penetration to this point. We still a small company, which means the opportunity is massive the way that we are looking at IT. So if you are the market, which is we are in this case, but we can create a bigger, newer market.

So I don't think we are that dependence on the macroeconomic situations in the market that if you are like eight percent market course, market inks drink from that point of view, you I think we are in a good place. And there is only one brand in the world, B, N, O, who can offer a luxury, this technology experience and beautiful sound. There's nobody else who can do that.

So we feel excited about this opportunity as being our own blue ocean. And if you look at other luxury categories, there is always a few brands that you have the customer to shoes between. And if you look at watches, we have a few watches brands.

You look at cars, there are a few. And if you look at fashion or a few, you will read there a few. But if you want to find a beautiful piece of art that playing music. There's only one this only one in all of and I think that's what we need to nurture and we need to take care of in a good way going forward.

But of course, is we are a product company and and we need to keep on innovating on the product side and making beautiful designs using our craft manship skills in woods and aluminum and and text style and audio and acoustic as well. And I think the trends really also go our way if you look at the trends for higher resolution audio. So the streaming platforms are coming out with higher resolution to a higher degree.

If you have high resolution, you also want to reproduce that music in high resolution. So the the mans on the equipment at home will go up, which is great. In our case, when we look at luxury consumption, S, N, C, who are big consumers of election, will continue to be very important segment for Lucy growth going forward.

They want to personalize experience. They want to be cut to irrelevant. We offer the product that is crazy to cradle certified.

So basically a product with longevity and and the most sustainable type of product that you can have and then you can personalize IT as well with our attilia services. So I think we are playing in to that trend as well. So we feel pretty good about what the future has for us.

Well, what you mentioned jensie, I guess if we take long way back to the, I guess, introductions of walkman right before walkman, we consume music at home most of the time. But walkman， uh, was introduced and then came many other new versions of different walkman is basically portable music.

And now you look at the way that Young people consume not just music, but come in ipca, right? To put their headsets over, either over the years or in years. And you got noise cancellation.

So the pieces got smaller and smaller and smaller. This is what you you know, your beautiful pieces are larger pieces, right? So you see this new trend of consuming music, but not just jensie, but new, Younger and Younger generation. Is that a chAllenge is in the opportunity for piano.

I think there is opportunity because also the Young generation particularly was interested in inheritance. They are interested in history. And it's also interesting to see how vitals are researching in popularity. And somebody told me half of the vines sold or sold to somebody who doesn't even have a record play because you buy IT for the artwork you buy IT for.

You want to keep IT and hold on to IT and do something to look at uh and see these are also coming back in researching um partly because of course, of the acoustical experience, but also partly because of the whole experience of having a physical object. Ah so I think the Young in ration starts appreciate that as well. Um so from that point of view, the the past is good and we connect the past.

We depressing them with the futures of our own point of you as well. That's fantastic if people have an interest in in the history. But also when we look forward, I think music consumption, what we try to do is to make IT seamless.

So independent of your use case that you have a seamless experience, whether IT is in your car, where is the home, whether that work or whether IT is on your job or your private yet, we want to make sure that we provide that seamlessness and that we have an offering that fits for the use case. So we have a broad portfolio for that reason. We have in their phones, we have headphones, we have blue to speakers, we have small speakers, we have bigger speakers, we have TV products and outdoor products. If you fall in love with b and o, then we want to follow your money in life and to be able to offer you an amazing music, sound experience throughout. And that's our benefit because we have that portfolio.

True, but the look of your product is difficult not to be colonized by your product, to be on us at home or order around the go. I I know that B N O has three very important pillars, which you you mention several times, luxury, luxury and also technology. I want to ask you about these three pillars, luxury in technology.

And I think i've luxury, you think of luxury products, right? So it's all about the exterior, those about the exterior design that look, feel of the appearance of IT. But how is luxury reflected in the technology bit of the product design? Yeah, i'm not sure. So maybe I take .

you through all the three, three words because we have shows on them carefully and we've been really doing a village and work in arriving these three words and can also why they are our business strategy and why we believe that, that will give us a blue ocean opportunity because there is really nobody who can copy IT. By definition, if you want to be in luxury, you need to have heritage.

If you look at all the lux xury brands, they are established eighteen hundreds or seventeen hundred centuries yeah and and we are next year, as we talked about already one hundred years. So that's the first piece. We have a globally recognized brand.

When people here buying, all of people know that this is an amazing global brand. We have desirable products. People see the product.

They are distinct from a design point of view, from a craft manship point of view and from an acoustic point of view. So when you see IT, there is, I want IT. Can I have IT, which is really important, then we have pricing power.

We are going our own way with the product experience that we are delivering, which is also enabling us them to short more for IT. There's more value in the product and in the whole experience, which I will come back to, then we have our own distribution network. So if you want to provide a customer experience and good customer, arnie, we need to do with end to end.

So IT starts, we prepare, chase, whether you're online or we are do offline when you go to the store, at least at the where page. IT needs to be a good experience. And of course, when you have thought the product, IT also needs to be good experience.

When he is being installed, there are unpacked or unboxed. And then when you are using IT, of course, IT needs to be good. And then if IT fails, IT needs to be served and replied, that needs to be good experience.

And we have a store network of four hundred source in the world that can look after our customers in this way. There's no other play who really has that capital then we are offering util services because you want to personalize your product, you want to be different. We see that the in luxor as well as a trend. We can make really any color that you want to have. We can make any treat that you want to have or any wood .

that you want to have and .

will make the remote control for you. And we can make the woods, the lamela as well, from your own tree and from your own garden. So we believe that is really, really powerful in terms of playing in the luxury space.

And then if you go to the second word, timelessness and and design is, of course, he was important here that the design will stand the test of time. And and we know that our past products and the icons they are doing that and people still enjoying them twenty, thirty, forty years after they were born. So that's really important.

Um but also the service ability and the reliability of the products, and we are now building which ever come back to in the technology section as well. But we are building our products based on product platforms and technology platforms. I mean, we are reducing the same software in all products. no. So we don't develop one product, one software anymore.

So for you think about that's good for us.

but he's even Better for the consumer because exactly if you buy a product today, you don't have to worry that the product is going to be old or or not being current because there will be a new software coming that we can download over the air into the product. So with new features are coming, new functionality is coming, you can rest assure that they will be made available for you as well.

And then also when we build the products, we looked at our past and we already discovered that um our engineers from the seventies and eighties, they were smart. They build them in modules and they screw the process together. They didn't grew them together, and we are doing that now as well.

So if you look at the latest headset, eight, one hundred IT is reparable. IT is service able. We can open IT up. We can take IT apart. We can put matter's .

in because .

he is a toy, which so service able reparable. And that also makes them, of course, and customisable, we can use the idea service. So if you combine that, we're luxury.

And what I said about thinness and this, there's really nobody else. And then if you take the technology piece as well on top of IT, we are leaders in acoustics in the world. We are doing amazing acoustic experiences we have in denmark, something we call tone masters, that are working the company.

And they are designing the audio in the way that the artist intended IT to sound. And they spend hours in this article chAmbers and making sure at the product history, producing the music the way the artist intended IT to do. We never compromise ed on that.

So we actually start with the acoustic experience, and then we build the design around that. And by doing that, and on our technology platforms, we believe there is also something that the others in the world cannot copy or cannot take after. So those three words and luxury time is technology we believe is really be differentiating for us.

Then putting that back into context in the world with the trends, luxury is growing. Everybody wants, uh, products that are standing or being useful for a long time. Long givet is really important.

You don't want to be in a waste economy any more. Throw products away. Those trends, together with a higher resolution audio, is also playing to our brand and to our strength.

And then we have to complete portfolio o so we want you to fall in love with us. And when you have fall in love with us, we want to make sure that we service you very well. So you stayed married with .

us forever for life, timelessness and technology. I have to find these two so contradictory each other, right? Because he is something from the past.

They will stay on forever. But technology evolves so quickly. no. So iphone every every year as a new version, right? So how do you make these two elements work together so well.

yeah, first, all the design needs to be timeless from the get go. But I said the modular building system and the technology platforms enables us to keep on evolving the product and developing the product. And then because also we are proud about their heritage, if you take the turn table from your koba, we can connect that wirelessly today to our latest speakers.

We take a problem from the from the seventies, and we connect IT to current product wirelessly. We make sure that, that he's working together. So this seamlessness is important for us to pass, is important for us and the way that we then use these technology platforms and neibban of that.

And we who knows what technology will be available five and fifteen years from now, but we have this small prints, the circuit IT board, that is the brains and the heart of the product. And we can actually take that one out easily as well and put a new one in. So should there be something that we not aware of today that will happen five, ten years from now, then we can actually also build that into the product if the current platform allows for that.

Otherwise, we take the platform out and we put a new platform. So we feel confident that we have, again here something that is making also the technology seamless. Sorry, timeless.

yeah. Of course, I think I saw smart because are being vintage the trend now these the Younger generation, the older vintage they like to, right? So the design of your product from, I don't know, fifty, sixty years ago is now the vintage to a lot of the Young generation. But you actually can, you know, switch or replace the core technology that's hidden in the product. So these two go so well together.

they go well together. And the material aluminum last forever, would last forever. The text time that we have last forever, the designs, or like you say, beautiful from the death go.

And why then have to replace everything if you're going to replace IT. A small is actually not more than maybe three percent meters by three centimeters that hold brain and heart that we have in the product. And acoustic, they're already amazing and well designed and and probably over engine even that's good because means IT last.

Yeah this is lovely, a story of a consumer of yours empowers. Uh, he owned A B O sound nine thousand thirty two years ago, thirty two years. So thirty two years ago, he save all is this will be the first B N O peace that he blow.

So B B O thousand nine thousand he owned for thirty two years. Then he broke down. And then he took IT to the piano. I think because he was so pressure, he didn't want to let go or so he took IT back to B N O N. B A will not only fixed the product, but you also offer this consumers another .

twelve month warranty.

Now first of all, like we said, you know, the product itself has become a vintage and I think that's why he didn't want to let go. But you still can find the parts or the the switch war, whatever you call IT, to replace the technology and is still works. And I have my own story, my husband, uh, on a bill sound, three thousand two hundred. So I more twenty years ago already and it's still working.

That's great, I think, for consumer value point of view. But we started when we turn ninety five. We looked at other industry watchers and we looked at cars and and these industries have classical programs when you restore classical products because they are still valuable even if they are getting older.

Uh, so we decided to put the same thing in place. And we did that time, ninety five of the turn table pilot m four thousand. And they saw that would immediately in twenty four hours, they were all gone. So we realized we were on to something yeah. And then of course, we have expanded on our capabilities and competences and looked at the whole portfolio going back in time on how we can repair and how we can service IT.

Unfortunately, not everything from the past is always able unreliable, but we really try hard to make sure that we keep parts and save parts and and make new parts if need be so that we can yeah rebuild them and service them and then make them as good as they were when they were new. And sometimes even Better because some customers wants to add something extra on to IT as well, which we are also offering and doing so. So yeah, we will keep on doing that because we believe that the right thing to do.

But that's also a great answer to the sustainability effort, right? Is that because you don't really you throw and that customer .

you references in paris, he was I mean, he even wrote handwriting letter to me about this because he was over. When we enjoy that, this could be a reality in today's world and one them. So we've expanded on that and we have different service centers in in the world who can take out .

a right let's talk about your commitment to the sustainability because I know you have this creature to cradle certification in your organization. I think that that's proof or certificate of organizations effort to sustainability, right? So just for all lesson is benefit to can you explain a little bit what cradle to cradle certification is about? And what what do you need to do as an organization to earn that certification?

So basically means that the product never goes into the grave. So IT comes back alive again. So crazy to crazy. IT was razed to grave, yes. And crazy .

to earth.

yeah exactly. And and we want to make sure that the products can be used and reused and and we build them that way. And when they are built in such a way so that they can be reused and reborn, then you get a certificate at that is just to find that, that is basically to the case.

And we have, I think, two products that are now have received certificate. We have a few pending certificate, and we have made a commitment as well that we are going to make yeah, IT is an engineering chAllenge, but IT fits well into luxury time as technology as well as well for us. We don't have to go and do something extra. This is part of the core strategy on how we have done things in the past, and then we will continue need to do that for the future. So so for us, that's A A natural process .

OK get much the concept that you talked about earlier on IT, if it's really well into the sustainable efforts. So I I think your latest product this over year, head said a lot of the pots can be replaced.

They can be replaced. Batteries needs to be replaced and you can open up service the product. You will see those there is on one, placing the product of screws that enable that I to open IT up.

If you look at the press, that crew wasn't there and that grew. So this seems like a small detail. Engineers spent many, many hours, weeks debating and discussing on how that should work and what would look like because IT needs to be there so that you can open IT up.

Yeah, but we have amazing engineers are taking care that i'm thinking about all of this. Like I said, for us, this is not something extra. This is not an after thought. IT is part of the core strategy of the core DNA of being from from the past. And and we are bringing that up and putting that really in the front of everything we do right now.

I have so much respect for that because at one point, I look at the assets I have, I have by ten pairs, I closed myself. I said.

what was I doing?

Final be so good for you.

You can sell them on the market. And yeah which is another thing we're also looking into. We haven't analyze, but if you go look at and uh, we loved type products are becoming more popular as well.

And that's also trend even though we have said on, on the strategy, we are going from a pricing performance point of view, northeast. So higher Price of Better performance, that's what we are driving for. And to make, like I said, the best product that you can possibly do. We know there's a second hand markets as well. And our, again, classic repair program and restoration program fits well into the real of the type of concept as well so that also people can enjoy a use product as much as a new one.

Is that also part of the generation insights you've gather?

Because I notice, ed, that I think that is because they want that as well, coming back of teachers, coming back involved, like you say. And that fit super well into watches, feels well into cars, fit welling to our products. Yes, as well if you're building them the way that I just described, then IT works if you are doing the plastic thing and and the values, basic zero for that.

But if you look at IT is in europe, I don't know about here. But if you look at at um be some two, which is an iconic product for us as well. We have voted for five years ago. You essentially get the money back if you selling IT on the use market. Uh of course the new one is more expensive again, but there is not many products in the electronics space.

But you get your money back after four, five years. How do you and your team keep yourself up today to Young generations? Habits of electronic products know the way that consume mus.

I mean, we talked about the early right being Young generation is always Younger generation coming along the way that they approach music, and the way they they appreciate or not appreciate music is very different. Look at today's Younger generation. Short form video is everything has to be short. Everything has to be fast food kind of somehow sometimes the audio quality might be a compromise willing to take. How do you stay relevant to these Younger generation?

First, I think, is about understanding function. And that's one of the things why we are here.

Yeah.

it's china is the from of all of this. We want to learn from from the chinese market on how the Young generation c are consuming not only music, but anything in the general. And of course, all these insights we take back home, we have the board even here looking at all of this is not only me in my team were looking at, but we also do have a consumer insights team.

And when we have ideas about what we will build and how we want to build things, we go to markets. And we do test basically we'd consumers to get the feedback on what they think and what they like and what they don't like so that we calibrate ourselves to worse, that the generation that I have three critical kids as well at all, eight and twenty six. But they are they are looking after my calibration as well, whether I am tune with what's going on in the world, and we all have that. so. We get a lot of feedback from our families as well and then from our talented .

team in the markets and feedback. I know we all to all of my daughter is twenty five years. So I always look at the way that they SHE consume.

Music was very different. So at least mike is very direct, and i've spoken, and what is good, and what is not so good at, and what we need to work with. So I get a lot of input from them, but I think that is the name of the game as well. Generally speaking, for any company, you need to have a good insight team and you need to have an ability and desirability to learn um because the word is moving on. And of course, some pieces will be, in our case, study wise, constant, but you need to be constant learning organization and then adapt and reformulated.

And when we look at many of the luxury products in the world as well, not only the companies and I talked about before about the products, they have been conceived in the thirties and in the fourth and in the fifties and the sixties, and then they have tweet them and tune them over the years, but essentially they look the same, and you feel not to connect or or watch us or bags. You don't know if this is the seventy model or a day year model, nine year model day look very similar, and that is in in the demand right now as well. But do you really need to stay tuned with the market for.

do you chinese consumer slightly different than consumers elsewhere?

I think from a technology point of view, if you look at what shot and things can do, that is ahead of, I think, the rest of the world. So technology wise for sure and also luxury consumption wise, you are. And and that's why you see, of course, all the luxury brands being here as well. And and I think the world and that already change, I think, a while back. But you need to look at china first and then you can take that to the rest of the world, not other way around where you take whatever working the rest of world and tried to buy that china that is.

That has changed many of my friends working in luxury category, in luxury groups. So what they say to me was one great things about the chinese consumers for luxury sector is that they are much Younger than the counterpart elsewhere. So you got much a longer lifetime to sell .

product to them. That's no. But we know that from research and and the company research as well that the E N C used to is china. N C used to fast as going luxury consumer in the world.

And the next, I think if looks six years down the road, they will contribute to eighty percent of the luci consumption and of course, have a yen y as well. That is also pretty in in the america's, particularly on luxury. Uh, but we think that's good because that's the direction we are heading.

And then you will look out again, they are also MC the biggest consumption group of streaming audio. So that fits very well in to our strategy as well. And then with music, they like what I talked about before, heritage and vintage. They like customer personalization, fits perfectly into what we are able to offer them as well. So we want them to be successful and go out and consume.

Yeah, I think there's an observation of the market in china that the Younger generations are also becoming more sensible when IT comes to consumption because IT is your excessive products and productions of many, many things. So what I want to do is I want to buy stuff that last forever or that last longer. So they tend to go a bit up market. Yeah, they're willing to save up the the savings of bye one piece that's got quality, let's got stable sustainability that can last much longer.

which that trend is perfectly into our strategy as well as I think we are well calibrate to the current trends for sure. And that's also why we believe we have a new opportunity ahead of us. We still a lot of things that we want to do. So we are not testing on our laurels, but I think we in a good place, right?

Okay, can I tell you .

about a .

pandemic cause I know you became B L global C E O in nineteen ah .

and in how do you .

lead an organization that you only a relatively new C E O, right? How do you lead the organization through that difficult period?

So I had like a six months before, eight months like that before the pandemic really hit. But what we try to do and what I try to do is that could be out in the market and listen to the market, and I could do that for a very short pair time. And then you were basically stuck at home like all of us were.

But again, that comes back to the people that we have in the company and their willingness to work through IT is and try to help and find new ways of doing things again. So IT was what I was. And and the we worked from from home. Some of our engineers skip down into the factories and .

these things really .

we are we actually develop the current control TV throughout the pandemic. And they wanted to surprise me. So they went on weekends and evenings to the factory and the people prototype, and we did that in record time during the pandemic as well.

So if there's a wheel, there's a way and that comes back to people, passion, commitment as well and also from our from our dealers and our partners as well to to kind of help us. IT wasn't easy and we had particularly, I think, too tough months when shanghai looked down completely and when beijing looked down completely because then our warehouses, we also looked down and we couldn't translate that all well. But except for those two months, we did well.

We managed to keep the business going. And and also because of the I think, breath and the waist of the portfolio, we had a portfolio death was suitable for home, which was great because now we are home and I want to enjoy a Better what you experience at homes or Better T V, visual experience at home. perfect.

So let's buy some process for the home because obviously you had to travel. Retail completely closed down, right? So that didn't work so well during that time. So the press and the waste of the portfolio for sure helped as well. Um and we found new ways of doing IT, but we were hit as well for sure, especially two months.

But we turned IT around.

We turned we turned around solution. And last year, we did our best year in terms profitability that we've had for six years. So and we laid a good foundation as well for the strategy that we announced now was eighteen months ago, the electric time as technology strategy.

We work a lot in the background with what we want to do and and how we're going to have a long term vision and what that long term vision is at the same time. And you have more time when you do at at home, you can try IT anywhere. So so we work quite intensively with that.

And then, of course, the world was also locked down in different time periods. So some countries open up, but the countries shut down. And of course, as the pandemic spread across the globe.

So luckily, again, we have a global geographical footprint, which helps to keep things alive as well. So but IT was tough. Yeah, I was tough for everybody. And and of course, in china.

I was tough. But I guess now even though is post pandemic, there are ways of work. Working is now here to stay right? permanent.

yeah. So things are working from home. Sexy were working, which means people are spending more time at home. That must be an opportunity for you.

right? For B N L. I think IT is um we we look at on how we work as such as well.

We have kept the flexible works based on and we leave up to each every department to decide on when they are going to be in the office and how they become more efficient and effective. And what works for them is not one size feeds all in terms of how we work. Then we have adapted the wearable products more towards enterprise that we didn't have before. And of course, that's a long term benefit because we put IT into the platforms and to make sure that they function well together with video conferencing them, for instance.

But also, if you're using a headset or screen for a long time and you're using IT, more makes sense to have a Better one and more comfortable one and makes sense as well to have one that you can use for both leisure and work and as you know, of fantastic for for lesser people know that already, but you can also work with them really well in eight one hundred. Again, when you look at the microphones that we have put in into that headphone IT is like studios grade microphones, and the winds, oppression, knowing cancellation is in so you can put them on in the airport. And really, people believe you are still at home in the office, which is also a great news for everybody who is working with them.

I tell you, I ve been doing so many I virtual meetings by the first thing, people who notice, ed, what headphone are you I want beautiful .

as well when you put on the head phone and exactly I have like my wife and our when when I brought them the eight one hundred, the first thing to do is, of course, picked the color they wanted to have, and they went to, my wife went for the africa color, and my daughter went for the sand gold one wall. But that was the picture color that was first to love. The second thing they did was run to the mirror and have a look on how they look in them. They they didn't even put the music on how do I look in them so but they look great and and that's important.

Yeah, you got to look great and in a virtual meeting. Now let's upper bodies the only to see.

right? And I think that our products fulfill talking .

about the product eight, nine. And thank you very much for inviting me to the event last night. I was a great event and it's so it's so exciting to see the eight, nine product input.

I know this part is uh has been around for twelve years already. And the latest uh innovation that you're doing with the product is the cover that you work with artists to come up with also. So very interesting, very discover that you can put over this this speaker, right? Don't want to tell me a bit, a bit about background to this idea of working with artist. I know you are work with, they know various artist, but the idea so interesting.

And so we have done a few of those, collaborated the years. First, what this is a great product is a product that like to say have been round for while and you want to yeah modify and everybody has their own taste. And it's a great way because we have the covered that can be paid and you buy paintings, you can buy new covers for your product as well.

And then obviously, as a tribute to the product, to have great artist designing covers really, really makes sense. Not only covers an exhibition, yesterday's well, you had the bread looks, I know. So IT was more than only the cover, but that's part of what we want to do.

We want to offer an autistic, an an art or beat. And of course, painting and and painters. That's art. Craft manship in many four more shape is is art and becoming art. So our attribute to art was expressed yesterday with a nine.

We do that other products, of course, as well because you can customized them and you can get the wood, like I said. So that's who we are and nobody else he's doing any of that either. So I think that's quite .

but but the partnership of the design makes even more interesting. I mean, he wasn't very nice peace piece of nice piece of furniture already. And you put IT anywhere any quarter in your home just is well with environment, but now makes you even more beautiful. Now I have to ask this as as a customer of your pott going forward, would you allow customers to customize the cover like i've got a great painting I do with me, my daughter. Can I use that to customize my own?

And oh.

but I think, okay. So when IT becomes available, you can let me know .

we can already do IT today, but do IT in the industrial scale. Yeah take a while back. But people want that and and we can fulfill those dreams making short that if he's niche into the environment or like if you have the painting and you want to have the product to look like the painting as well, why not? Of course, we cannot make any copies of of really not make a pick like that, really respect the copyrights, everything, but is great to do the code development like we did here with the arrest. And also that was a painting actually hanging next to the product yeah as well in yesterday exhibition yeah, credit the fantastic china team that we .

exactly it's beautiful. Those are beautiful. And I went on to your website as well. You have options. And the elsewhere in the world by other artist is really.

really greater than the beautiful gifts as well. With the wine coast cos I did, you can take home and they will remember that forever. Great, great addition. Exactly benefit.

I wanted ask you a lot, but not least your leadership. It's like like we say you only became the C. E.

O in twenty nineteen. Uh, it's a five year, ten years verses, say one hundred years. I'm Young said you're very Young now, what attracted you to piano?

Yeah so first I will grew up with a brand and and I have the bill thousand three thousand and two thousand three hundred and .

one with the test OK.

And I saw that when I was living in north amErica to somebody who could not buy one in because they didn't have IT in that market at the time. And I thought I was going to be purchase IT when I came back to eua, but that never happened because of the things came in between the sea. But I always been a fan and had been no products at home.

Then I forgot about the Brown. I wasn't like with the Brown, forgot about the Brown and was doing my thing. And and incidentally, like like a year before I got the request to be part of this process, I had bought some being no products because a friend of mine told me that, have you checked this out? No, I hadn't.

And then I went to, checked this out, and then I bt, v and few other things I OK course hundred called me and approached me. I mean, if you can help such an iconic brand as you know, you cannot say no. And then what about trying to understand what the problems were? Because we had certainly problems five years ago.

And then the second thing was, can I help to fix them? Because there is no point in moving to denmark. And if you cannot believe that you're going to make IT right and that we can fix IT, but I believe that the problems that we had was certainly fixie, and I believe that my tool box could be useful to help to restore the company. So we went for IT and the here and .

you did help the situation to over the years as well.

obviously, because in the beginning, we were multiple or we distribute, throw multi Brown and we didn't have a clear vision where we were going to go at that point in time. But when I joined IT was just to get back into black. If you don't make money, you just have one problem, and that is to make money because otherwise there is no future.

So that was the first porter coal and and the first yeah month as we had get back to black and and we succeeded with that. Then the second phase s of the strategy was to build, draw, stand, right? So what is broken and how we make sure that we we have a solid foundation for going forward.

So investing into the factories, the roof was falling in on one place of the factory. The first save was not nice. So yes, renovated whatever needs to be renovated because there were certain pieces that had not been looked after quite some time, also competences within the company.

And because if you don't fix that and you start to scale something, then we just scale a problem and you don't want to do that. So we also looked out on product and product quality and other areas. And then where do we want to go from here? And that we announced more, less two years ago, then we have been working with that.

So now we are like in the third face, entered in the third face, which is the growth face, where we know that we have a super exciting market opportunity that currently estimated to be like one hundred billion euro and is going to grow over the next six years to forty eight billion years old. So good growth, right? I think sixteen percent in cargo.

And if you look at like the consumer tronk industry is going to grow at the same year of time with one percent. So we are in in a good place to capture that opportunity with the current strategy. Um so so far, so good.

Have you get what you done the last five years? You just finding the focus for the company?

exactly. So set the vision, setting the focus, the north pole where we want to go. And the beautiful thing in our case, like I ve said many times, we we when we get there and the faster we get there, we're going to be alone there. So it's a really good place.

I, I, I had a look of your annual reports, and there are nine future risks in the annual report OK. Those are products, growth rates, gy talent, cyber security, esg and sustainability, micro economic and geopolitical uncertainty, climate change, corruption and human human rights. So what are the top three? I keep you up at night.

I mean, there are many things that are risks in in any business. And I think that also today in a market where where there is so much scrutiny and what you say and what you don't say, of course, everybody's listing all these risks. So there's nothing like that is you need for me, you know, I think can look at any companies report and you need to the risks and that because of of the ah how the regulations are but there is nothing that keeps me awake at night. Tell no, no so I said, well.

it's a great position to be a great question.

but I think we know where we're going and that gives us comfort. We have a great team as well in place that is dealing with all these shoes. We have ambition, plan, ambitious plans.

So the faster we can get them execute that, the Better IT is from our point of view. So if there's something I wish form is that we can do this transformation faster. Really IT doesn't keep me wake at night because, again, we are going to place with nobody else as so does no race.

If you have to say competitors, you race to get there. But I think we have a strategy that were difficult for anybody really to copy because you cannot buy time, right, if don't have one hundred years of heritage. So from that point of you, I think we can do IT in our own pace, but i'm patient as a person as well as so the faster we can get there, the matter will .

be so where do you see B N O five to ten years later? Other then did the revenue grow to more than in forty, forty eight billion euro?

We will be many more homes, I think, as such, and we will delight many more consumers and customers, not only with great audio, but in the whole customer, you're only the whole experience like you get from any luxury good luxury brand yeah a fantastic experience that where we look after you will become friends of the house and we look after your products. We look after you when your families and you use cases that you have, we cater for making you happy. And if you do that, you will stay with us and you will buy more products from.

like you said, you very humble way that you're a small company. You ah you're still small portion of the bigger markets and your consumer love your products and the product stay forever. So your return customer, I don't know how high IT is, but you constantly have new customers who wanted to own your product.

So we need new customers is important for us, also important to keep the current ones. And and a good way to keep customers and to get new ones is to make them happy and deliver on their expectations and always serve them very, very well. IT is again proven recipe in luxury in many industry as well as is not something new but is more difficult to execute if you don't have a clear vision, plan, strategy and impowering of the organization.

So like way to go before we are where we want to be. But I think everybody again is some board on this year to serve the customers and to make them happy and to solve the problems that they may have. And poor mouth spread also very quickly.

So if you get a good service, you will tell your friends and your family, and then they will come, and they will also then hopefully be happy as well, and then they will tell their friends and IT multiples very, very quickly. As a luxury brand, you need to do that. So we pay a lot of attention to. All the details in this customer, you are me, whether it's in store experience or whether is this product experience later on as well or, or product and service and repairs. And we have things that we know we can do Better and we will continue to improve those.

Speaking as a very happy customer, I wish you meet plenty of x success coming in your way in the next five to ten years. And I want to thank you so much for being on my show and share so much insight of N O success and your future vision without listeners.

Thank you very much question. Thank you very much. Thank you you. Thank you. thank.